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  1. #1

    Default 3rd gun, NPE Ammo selection

    Ok, getting away from the cheap/shit gun thread...

    Given you are using a .22LR, .32ACP, .380 ACP in a deep concealment role, what is your ammo choice?

    Quality hollow points that function in your particular weapon, or some form of FMJ for ultimate reliability/penetration?

    I have typically used .38SPL gold dots, or Federal HST (+P) in my revolver. FMJ in my small auto, although it functions well with Remington Golden Sabers.

    Wondering what others carry, and maybe have some experience with.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    Ok, getting away from the cheap/shit gun thread...

    Given you are using a .22LR, .32ACP, .380 ACP in a deep concealment role, what is your ammo choice?

    Quality hollow points that function in your particular weapon, or some form of FMJ for ultimate reliability/penetration?

    I have typically used .38SPL gold dots, or Federal HST (+P) in my revolver. FMJ in my small auto, although it functions well with Remington Golden Sabers.

    Wondering what others carry, and maybe have some experience with.
    #1: most important is that the ammo go bang, 2: it will not tie up your weapon for one reason or another, and 3: it is very likely to make an incapacitating injury to your opponent(s).
    You want ammo with a primer and bullet seal on it. If they are hideaway NPE guns the barrels are usually short and the chamberings are lower velocity cartridges. I would go FMJ when possible. Some .32ACPs must use shorter cartridge lengths that usually means expanding bullets. Other wise I want FMJ.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #3
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    I have primarily been using Spear Gold Dot in all of my EDC with very good result.

    As soon as I receive my ammo order, I will be testing Speer Gold Dot .32 ACP in a new Seecamp.

    I could’t believe my luck last week when I found a brand new LWS .32 at my local FFL and the price was impossible for me to pass it up. They had ordered it for a customer who backed out at the last minute because he felt that it was too hard for him to rack the slide.
    His loss = My gain. 😁
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    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
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  4. #4
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    Seecamp is built for Speer Gold Dots. All my 9mm I use the Barnes DPX bullet. It is a deadly round. Best source right now is Black Hills. Or, you could just go all Gold Dot too.

    A mistake many make is they go and buy Tula or Wolf...or WWB, run it through the pistol...the pistol fails to function 100% and then declare the pistol unreliable. Use good ammo and you get good results.

    I am taking another look at the NAA guns like the Pug from various comments and Payne advises it is good to go. I don't know much about 22LR or 22magnum ammo.

    The accuracy of these is not very important...I don't see shooting someone across the street with a Seecamp, PPK, or Pug. These are for unplanned, mistaken-threat-asessment combat in an elevator.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Seecamp is built for Speer Gold Dots. All my 9mm I use the Barnes DPX bullet. It is a deadly round. Best source right now is Black Hills. Or, you could just go all Gold Dot too.

    A mistake many make is they go and buy Tula or Wolf...or WWB, run it through the pistol...the pistol fails to function 100% and then declare the pistol unreliable. Use good ammo and you get good results.

    I am taking another look at the NAA guns like the Pug from various comments and Payne advises it is good to go. I don't know much about 22LR or 22magnum ammo.

    The accuracy of these is not very important...I don't see shooting someone across the street with a Seecamp, PPK, or Pug. These are for unplanned, mistaken-threat-asessment combat in an elevator.
    .22 rim ammo and reliability is an issue. Eley supposedly has a superior method of applying the priming compound. I assume premium ammo from people like eley would be more reliable. I know of no studies to show which .22 rim fire is most reliable. In the cheapo 500-550 bulk packs several failures to fire are not at all uncommon. People often recommend the .25 ACP that is center fire over the .22 RF.
    Certain governmental agencies here and elsewhere have likely looked into this.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #6
    Gabe, I'm aligned that this is contact distance combat. I thought I was correct in recalling that the Seecamps were built around hollow point ammo, old Silver tips, back in the day, and that the OAL of FMJ would not work for them. Given the overall anemic performance of these smaller rounds, I leaned towards FMJ for deeper penetration, while not ever expecting a through shot from one. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that consideration.

    That's said, thanks for the recommendations. I'll experiment with those when I get a .32.

    FWIW, Winchester Super X in hollow points and Solids have run well for me in numerous .22s. In fact, my REAL old Model 63 calls out for that ammo on the barrel stamp. I've never had a FTF with those. Nor have I had any issues with Eley, nor Wolf Match Target 22 ammo, but keep in mind most of this is "standard velocity" ammo - so you may be giving up some terminal energy, as well as bullet performance. That's said, I don't carry a 22 for self defense.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45Smashemflat View Post
    Gabe, I'm aligned that this is contact distance combat. I thought I was correct in recalling that the Seecamps were built around hollow point ammo, old Silver tips, back in the day, and that the OAL of FMJ would not work for them. Given the overall anemic performance of these smaller rounds, I leaned towards FMJ for deeper penetration, while not ever expecting a through shot from one. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that consideration.

    That's said, thanks for the recommendations. I'll experiment with those when I get a .32.

    FWIW, Winchester Super X in hollow points and Solids have run well for me in numerous .22s. In fact, my REAL old Model 63 calls out for that ammo on the barrel stamp. I've never had a FTF with those. Nor have I had any issues with Eley, nor Wolf Match Target 22 ammo, but keep in mind most of this is "standard velocity" ammo - so you may be giving up some terminal energy, as well as bullet performance. That's said, I don't carry a 22 for self defense.
    The Wolf Match Target 22 ammo is not made in Russia; it is premium target quality and when I used it years ago it was really low velocity.

    It was at one time made in Germany, but now I just read
    Notes: Wolf Match Target 22LR is now produced at the world renowned Eley ammunition plant in England. Please note that if you have shot this in the past you may have different results now vs the previous ammo from the German SK Lapua plant, although we expect Eley to be just as exceptional.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  8. #8
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    Cooper loved the word "anemic" to convince everyone they needed a 45. Real world, there are plenty of dead people shot in the face with five rounds of 22, 25, 32, and similar.

    Anemic compared to the 45 left in the safe? Its not a general purpose caliber like a 9mm...but if used correctly, will work fine. There is no margin for error with these unlike a full sized weapon.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #9
    Oh, I totally get that. More than once, when called out for having a .380, I suggested that the person telling me the round was too low powered, that I pop them in the kneecap to see how low powered it was. So far, no volunteers.

    I'll also point out that many SF medics, who train in ERs, like Detroit, will tell you that a 22 or 25 up close will kill, or at least stop offending behavior.

  10. #10
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    Im really happy to see that we are considering the NAA revolvers for this role. For their intended role (this role) they are a really good option. I do think the Seecamp is better; but then the NAA can be fired from inside a pocket; which I think is a major plus for a pistol in this role. I recall a rather unpleasant incident that occurred in Baltimore City (think a scene from THE WIRE), about 100 years ago.

    I was doing a protection assignment. It was one of those days that wasn't supposed to be cold, then suddenly was freezing. I was carrying a HK P7; but it was so cold that I had my coat zipped and buttoned against the wind (my fuck up). Then we walked into a situation where I thought I was going to need the gun--and I couldn't get it. Luckily fate shined and I didn't need it BUT that night I bought a NAA Revolver. I wanted a shrouded or hammerless 38; except my shop didn't have any in stock and I was still jonesing from the incident and wasn't willing to wait.

    I eventually did buy a 38 revolver with a bobbed hammer; but the NAA revolver still has a warm place in my heart. It has never failed to fire, maybe Im lucky because I have used pretty much every kind of ammo in it. Another advantage of the NAA is that a dead round can be bypassed by cocking the hammer and moving on to the next chamber.

    For weapons like this, I opt for penetration over expansion and plan on contact distance shots.

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