View Poll Results: Which one next?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • G17 9mm

    55 96.49%
  • G22 .40 S&W

    0 0%
  • G21 .45acp

    2 3.51%
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Results 21 to 26 of 26
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    134
    I won't buy a .40 handgun, because the increase in effectiveness does not warrant the increased ammo costs or the loss of custom options that only come in 9mm. Nor will I buy a pistol caliber carbine that does not take Glock mags. How many kinds of mags do I want to stock?

    So, I bought a G20.3. It takes the Endo stock adapter. It shoots 40 without any mods.

    Now I just said I won't buy a .40 handgun. But, I did buy a 16" barrel fold in half .40, Glock mag compatible, carbine.

    People are moaning at the choice of manufacturer but subguns are another breed than pistols. Much easier to make one reliable, as it's a very big blow-back pistol, essentially. And, in general, the larger a pistol the greater it's inherent reliability.

    A 40 through a 16" barrel is a full house 41 Magnum. The G20 with a 5.5" or longer barrel is also full house 41 Magnum.

    Both can be PDW/Subgun, and both can use 40. Besides cases and possibly also primers, they share reloading components. Bullet drop should also be similar.

    The only downsides are: the carbine cannot use the pistol's ammo, and the magazines are not interchangeable.

    For me, the 40 hits hard in a carbine and the 10mm in a pistol. I've never second guessed the choice of that combo. So I offer it as a suggestion for buying the other big Glock, in a 10mm.

    Also, I think that the price of 40 ammo will move closer to 9mm, as the years pass. And, I'm needing even a single hit to take care of a problem. That is, unless concealability from printing is needed, for surprise factor or NPE, effectiveness is paramount.

    The other thing that's paramount to me is weight. I can't control gun weight for category by as much as I can the weight of the ammo. After the first magazine of copper projectiles I'm going fragmented ammo in all subsequent mags.

    That's just me, and I have to figure the altered point of impact and reduced opportunities of testing and training with that follow-up ammo. That's the price I pay to carry plenty of 41 magnum effectiveness ammo that weighs the same as 9mm P.

    Although, at least in the carbine, 9mm is equal to 357 magnum. However, you lose the cross compatability of ammo then, and 357 is still not 41 magnum.

    I figure this caliber/gun combo would also allow use of training ammo for combat. And mitigate the fleeting opportunities for a hit, any hit.

    9mm is all great and fine, until either you, or a military, has to use ball ammo. I never saw 9mm ball in my life that is anything less than least possible disruption to tissue, organs and vessel.

    Now 40 FMJ is a whole nother story. They are never RN, always flat nose. Basically, a bitch at 41 magnum energies. Boggles my mind that militaries will choose 9mm in a hunk of gun that rivals a Desert Eagle for size.

    I went to a guy shot in the abdomen with RN 9mm. They were standing around talking, I couldn't tell who had been shot. Had to intrude their casual conversation to ask.

    The person accidentally shot was kept overnight in our forward casualty center, for observation, and released home without need of surgery.

    That very accommodating shape slid past vessels, organs and anything else vital with an excuse me sir, thank you. It lodged in the lateral process of a big old lumbar vertebrae without even breaking it.

    No, 9mm is an awesome cartridge, but fuck that in RN. It's not much better ruiner of someone's day than the notoriously ineffective 38Spl RN.

    I want to say that .380 ball is a scaled down 45ACP, with the same flat curve. As is the 9 Mak. But RN 9mmP, what shape is that? Pointy minimum disruption RN?

    I'd rather not own a gun that makes it possible for an under-informed family member to use that RN, in the event that I've, by the sheer grace of God, gone to be with Jesus.

    Actually, I did have to get my wife a 9mm, because it was a wonderful small Beretta, that fit her hand like a glove, and had the right ratio of size to capacity.

    But that's the only 9 I have or want. It gets a pardon, by virtue of its sheer excellence for the task at hand. Or is that the hand at task?

    I'm neither stupid nor obtuse, I fully get the beauty of guns like the Glock 19. I put this out to have someone think about the pros and cons, and to explain why I like a road less travelled.

    A large caliber pistol in skilled hands is in fact a formidable concealed weapon. As evidenced by the lamentable death toll in the recent savage bar shooting in California.

    In Durban, where I come from, a practical pistol shooter was set upon by his taxi, and the taxi drivers cohort of thugs. This was in the 70s, and the 1911 proved very decisive. Three out of four killed, as the group went about trying to kill him in the early hours. Tried to run him over, you name it. The sport shooter was decisive, and unscathed. Though, that was back when it was less of a sport and more of a martial art.

    Some police departments mandated it's use. LAPD SWAT, FBI Hostage Rescue, and Marine Cops elite have at various times felt convinced that bigger is better.

    However, as in my wife's case, EDC logic often dictates otherwise, for practicality and balancing of the many needs. To me, the day your opponent fields from his trunk, an AK against you, is the day the carbine option, plenty of lightweight ammo, and decisive power, are godsends.

    My universal belt snapped last night, when we were on our way home from shopping. In a shit area with the sun going down, the attentions of myself and my wife focused inward on the engine.

    A PGO in a baseball bag's unzipped bat sleeve (in a shotgun scabbard), under the front suspension of my raised Jeep. A 45 in a bag on the winch cable, a 357 in my pocket, a folding knife in my back pocket, and another 45 in a safe under the seat.

    Rolling heavy is the only way to handle car failure, and we had it with dealer maintained late modelled Mercedes in South Africa (fuel intake pipe curled upward in the fuel tank). And man was that a shit place to happen, with kids and on an interstate.

    My wife says "it's okay here in the church parking." I'm like, "honey, it's never okay when you're not moving and your attention is focused inward, in an area like this." 40 minutes later, of cutting out belt around the fan, etc, we felt like a surgery team, and were on our way home.

    If someone had purposed to fuck with us, he was going to an early grave. I made that decision as I gathered the right tools. And just like guns, you gotta have every edge. Ratcheting 13mm ring and flat and 8mm 1/4 inch socket and ratchet handle were the only tools needed, and they were optimum format. :)

    Flashlights, but no headlamp, hmm, that was bad prep. It meant my wife had to hold a flashlight, rather than stand,watch. I should have learned by now, sometimes you need four hands. One to hold the phone, another a gun, another a light, and yet another to drive a car or direct someone by the arm.

    As an aside to this, a light properly set up on your pistol, a headlamp, and hands-free voice directed coms are very important to have.
    Last edited by endsoftheearth; 12-07-2018 at 07:21 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by endsoftheearth View Post
    I won't buy a .40 handgun, because the increase in effectiveness does not warrant the increased ammo costs or the loss of custom options that only come in 9mm. Nor will I buy a pistol caliber carbine that does not take Glock mags. How many kinds of mags do I want to stock?

    So, I bought a G20.3. It takes the Endo stock adapter. It shoots 40 without any mods.

    Now I just said I won't buy a .40 handgun. But, I did buy a 16" barrel fold in half .40, Glock mag compatible, carbine.

    People are moaning at the choice of manufacturer but subguns are another breed than pistols. Much easier to make one reliable, as it's a very big blow-back pistol, essentially. And, in general, the larger a pistol the greater it's inherent reliability.

    A 40 through a 16" barrel is a full house 41 Magnum. The G20 with a 5.5" or longer barrel is also full house 41 Magnum.

    Both can be PDW/Subgun, and both can use 40. Besides cases and possibly also primers, they share reloading components. Bullet drop should also be similar.

    The only downsides are: the carbine cannot use the pistol's ammo, and the magazines are not interchangeable.

    For me, the 40 hits hard in a carbine and the 10mm in a pistol. I've never second guessed the choice of that combo. So I offer it as a suggestion for buying the other big Glock, in a 10mm.

    Also, I think that the price of 40 ammo will move closer to 9mm, as the years pass. And, I'm needing even a single hit to take care of a problem. That is, unless concealability from printing is needed, for surprise factor or NPE, effectiveness is paramount.

    The other thing that's paramount to me is weight. I can't control gun weight for category by as much as I can the weight of the ammo. After the first magazine of copper projectiles I'm going fragmented ammo in all subsequent mags.

    That's just me, and I have to figure the altered point of impact and reduced opportunities of testing and training with that follow-up ammo. That's the price I pay to carry plenty of 41 magnum effectiveness ammo that weighs the same as 9mm P.

    Although, at least in the carbine, 9mm is equal to 357 magnum. However, you lose the cross compatability of ammo then, and 357 is still not 41 magnum.

    I figure this caliber/gun combo would also allow use of training ammo for combat. And mitigate the fleeting opportunities for a hit, any hit.

    9mm is all great and fine, until either you, or a military, has to use ball ammo. I never saw 9mm ball in my life that is anything less than least possible disruption to tissue, organs and vessel.

    Now 40 FMJ is a whole nother story. They are never RN, always flat nose. Basically, a bitch at 41 magnum energies. Boggles my mind that militaries will choose 9mm in a hunk of gun that rivals a Desert Eagle for size.

    I went to a guy shot in the abdomen with RN 9mm. They were standing around talking, I couldn't tell who had been shot. Had to intrude their casual conversation to ask.

    The person accidentally shot was kept overnight in our forward casualty center, for observation, and released home without need of surgery.

    That very accommodating shape slid past vessels, organs and anything else vital with an excuse me sir, thank you. It lodged in the lateral process of a big old lumbar vertebrae without even breaking it.

    No, 9mm is an awesome cartridge, but fuck that in RN. It's not much better ruiner of someone's day than the notoriously ineffective 38Spl RN.

    I want to say that .380 ball is a scaled down 45ACP, with the same flat curve. As is the 9 Mak. But RN 9mmP, what shape is that? Pointy minimum disruption RN?

    I'd rather not own a gun that makes it possible for an under-informed family member to use that RN, in the event that I've, by the sheer grace of God, gone to be with Jesus.

    Actually, I did have to get my wife a 9mm, because it was a wonderful small Beretta, that fit her hand like a glove, and had the right ratio if size to capacity.

    But that's the only 9 I have or want. It's gets a pardon, by virtue of its sheer excellence to the task at hand.
    Sounds like another good argument to just shoot them in the face.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Frederick View Post
    Sounds like another good argument to just shoot them in the face.
    i love this place.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    134
    Weight for weight, animals are, in general, 4 times the strength of a human. Especially true of apes and dogs.

    And, if you are a walker, runner or cyclist, a dog is tens of times more likely to assail you than is a human. In which case, and seeing as a dog is 400% stronger, pound for pound, how much gun does it take to down a hundred pound dog with a lung shot?

    15x 800fpe, that weighs about the same as 9mmP, but is admittedly more bulky, sounds good to me for that task.

    Dogs charge fast and low, making a head shot difficult. So, I think it's a really good idea to include at least one of the large caliber Glocks in your Glock battery. For when you go for a walk, a hike, a run or a cycle.

    If you drive yourself everywhere, forget my suggestion on needing a large caliber handgun, PDW etc. A PGO, AR pistol and 9mm will be quite adequate for your lifestyle.

    If you don't think a dog is a serious threat, have two or three muzzled dogs assail you. Even without their bite, you are likely going to end up on the ground, scratched up and bleeding. Maybe with fear issues, and a 10mm fetish.

    But hey, I forget that I've already lived this shit, in a former life. You say, "c'mon man how bad can this be?" Well, not everyone is like us. Some people purposely keep the most vicious dogs and show them zero touch or affection. A dog is "untouchable" for some.

    You're thinking "yeah right, who then?" Muslims. Muslim's dogs got loose up the road from me in Westville South Africa and tore our postman to pieces. I worked for Westville Municipality and our fire guys told me that they collected up pieces of him.

    One day, walking home from work, and a quarter mile short of home, and midway between my home and where our postman was torn into pieces, I drew level with the mosque. And, low and behold, a ridgeback came flying out at me.

    The G20 was in my fanny pack, and slow into action, so I threw my very large bunch of keys, in my hand, at it. To retrieve my keys I had to fire near the dog, into the grass.
    This brought out seven or eight seething angry Muslim young men, shouting at me that I shot their dog, which had run into their grounds by now.

    They hid the dog, so we couldn't establish whether it was shot or not. What was obvious was that they wanted an excuse to have at me. Fortunately, before anyone could go to guns the Mullah showed up and called off his young bucks.

    No, you are in the wrong with angry Muslims even when they and theirs assaulted you. So, ideally I would have what SI has, a PDW, and in a backpack.

    That's what it will be like when shit hits the fan for you. I just lived it twice a week for decades, walking around in South Africa, lovely and wealthy though my neighborhoods were. If I wasn't krackling a stun gun in someone's face it was something else.
    Last edited by endsoftheearth; 12-13-2018 at 06:30 PM.

  5. #25
    And all that some people know about South Africa is from a televised golf tournament.

    Thank you for sharing firsthand info.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    134
    My pleasure Cyclist, thanks for reading.

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