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  1. #1
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    Default What cops need to consider about armed citizens

    What cops need to consider about armed citizens

    The presence of a gun does not always indicate a threat
    Nov 30, 2018

    This has been a tough year for police and armed citizens alike. In 2018, weve seen a number of tragic mistakes made by police officers who shot and killed lawfully armed citizens in error, including a homeowner in Aurora, Colorado, a security guard in Chicago, Illinois, and a Thanksgiving eve shopping mall patron in Hoover, Alabama, among others.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  2. #2
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    100 % spot on Gabe. Unfortunately many of the other practitioners of my chosen profession have become scared little children. Many have adopted all guns around me are bad and I must control them all. As I move into the last years before retirement it scares me to see current attitudes, not only towards their own weapons but being over reactive when they find a law abiding citizen with a gun. It is scary.
    Marine (Ma-rene) n. A mean, violent, nasty little green amphibious monster. Born and raised on Parris Island, but feared through out the world. They are impervious to pain and feed on fear. Unusual reaction to the words "Semper Fi"!

  3. #3
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    Aug 2014
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    Well, some here know my reaction to armed citizens first hand. Chill out and behave like an adult and you are good to go.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

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    1, 11, 15. And a wakeup.

  4. #4
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    "We still don’t understand the details of how these particular events unfolded, so it’s inappropriate to comment directly on the circumstances..."

    No shit, Mike. So how about you shut your pie-hole and not bring them up as a hook for your article?

    This has nothing to do with cops vs citizens: ask Robin Arhens. For that matter, ask the two Dicks that I took at gunpoint in a parking lot. Or maybe ask Gabe why he didn't get whacked and I'll sweeten the pot by telling you why I didn't create two vacancies in CID.

    People might not like to hear this, but if they're going to interject themselves, armed, into a killing situation, then it's on them to know the rules of engagement and not act like a duck in duck season.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  5. #5
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    Ive replied more than once to a driver stating " Ive got a firearm in the car" with " Great, I'd be worried if you were in these parts without one, tell ya what, you dont go for yours and I wont go for mine" ;) works damn near every time. Dont do stupid shit while armed and have a plan for when the coppers arrive.

    Ive personally done a sliding knee drop (sans knee pads) when coming corner to corner with a neighboring swat team that came to help on a situation. They didnt know me, I didnt look like a cop at the time, and the identifiers on my gear werfe low vis. Solution, let go of the gat (slings are there for a reason) , drop to knees in motion and place both hands on my head while repeating " Im A COP !" I was covered , identified, and back on task in under 30 seconds. I stapled myself to that team to avoid a second identification problem until the end of the incident.
    Last edited by coastalcop; 12-03-2018 at 08:51 AM.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Its not only lawfully armed citizens. Officers shoot each other (blue on blue) with distressing regularity, even when the officer shot is in uniform. Yes, everyone who carries, LEO or otherwise, can benefit from more training, including shoot-no shoot training. But all of us -- LEO or not, and armed or not, can benefit from training on how to avoid getting shot by a responding officer or other good guy.

    We've had several good discussions here on how not to get shot. Just one more skill in our bags of tricks.

    John W in SC

  7. #7
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    Here's an interesting vid regarding this situation. Kevin owns his mistakes, (and he certainly made them) but the situation ended up well. I think he does a good job at showing his mistakes and also pointing out how the LEO could have potentially handled this situation a little better.

    When comparing the article and the vid the 'clear communication' could have been improved on, BUT the officers did a great job at 'evaluating the behavior' that the article talks about.

    RECAP OF VID, Black male live-streaming a gun review from his car in public (bad idea), Panera bread worker sees him, calls LEO, LEO approach guns drawn, and Officers are all demanding different things. He could have easily f---'ed up but he kept his cool and AARs the situation.

    Gabe, pull it if you don't think it fits.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRAXEUjPWEw
    "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Darth Vader

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    TWOTU Since May 2015

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    395
    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    Ive replied more than once to a driver stating " Ive got a firearm in the car" with " Great, I'd be worried if you were in these parts without one, tell ya what, you dont go for yours and I wont go for mine" ;) works damn near every time. Dont do stupid shit while armed and have a plan for when the coppers arrive.
    Also matters how you present yourself, how you come across. In the past I've answered "yea I'm packin'. Right front'. After formalities were concluded all the officer asked about was the RDS setup. I pointed him to SI. He didn't bother to ask me for the CCW.
    anonymity is underrated

  9. #9
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    About 10 yrs ago, WVSP trooper stopped me on the turnpike. He waited until I had a good place to pull over before he lit me up. By the time he reached my window I had the window down & both hands high on the steering wheel. "I have a permit to carry and I am." "OK". He he asked for lic , registration & ins, I told him wallet in left hip pocket and reg & ins in glovebox. "OK." No drama whatsoever.
    I always have my primary weapon; it's right between my ears.

  10. #10
    Ok, question, based on feedback I received from GaSP, assuming your LEO encounter will most likely NOT reveal you are carrying, should you self ID as armed? Trooper told me no. (i.e. Car window interview.). But, you should, once situation changes and your gun may be revealed. "Could you step out of the car please?" "I have a permit to carry, and I am. How would you like to proceed?"

    I figured that made sense, as the TAC-14 in the door pocket would most likely be seen.

    Thoughts from those who wear the badge?

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