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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
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    1,698
    You may want to check out the 8.6 Creedmoor that Kevin Brittingham/Q is working on. It's basically the big brother to 300 Blackout based on a .308 so you just have to change the barrel and you're ready to go. At least Hornady and Discreet Ballistics are working on it with them so far... I think they are supposed to get the SAAMI stuff done soon and have it ready for the market next year. The subsonics will be over 300 grain...

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BlDipcNnfO6/

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,456
    Well that looks like a ton of fun right there.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    154
    If a rifle bullet doesn't impact at 2000+ fps, I'm not interested in it. Speed kills.

    My impressions of this came from maybe a bit of an extreme circumstance (impact velocity @1250fps), shooting deer with 5.56 vs. a 12 gauge slug.

    Using 5.56 the apex of the heart was damaged in about a 1.5" diameter region where the bullet "blew it out" causing the muscle tissue to rip in a star shape during its passage. 3 ribs on the entrance side were broken, and I believe 2 on the exit side. Most of the lung on the impact side was gelatinous soup. The off-side lung was pretty gnarled up. If that deer had been laying in a trauma bay at work when I shot it, we couldn't have done shit for it even if there was no heart involvement. It ran 75 paces down a hillside and died.

    The deer I shot with the 12ga slug was hit in a very similar location, although slightly further back initially, as it was quartering away from me. It looked like a cookie-cutter had passed through it, approximately 0.7" across. The heart and lungs showed a clean hole through them, with healthy undamaged tissue right up to the edge of the hole. Annoyingly, the whole damn side of the deer had junk in it just under the membrane under the hide because of the quartering angle, the front of the stomach was nipped. Massive TSC...but that TSC didn't do shit but make life for me annoying. The deer ran about 125 paces and along and down a hillside before dying. It showed similar reaction to the one hit with the 5.56 at the moment of impact and seemed "better off" as it ran, as the 5.56 hit deer ran into darn near everything in its path, while this deer seemed to pick its way. Had its head about it better, you'd say. Had this deer been shot as such in a trauma bay, and no cardiac involvement, we could have easily saved this deer and discharged it from the hospital in good condition, provided sepsis didn't become an issue. Chest tubes and those lungs would have healed fine.

    Cutting open two beasts each hit in similar locations with projectiles at varying velocities taught me a lot about how fast a bullet is going and what it is doing. I know we have all seen "gello shots" of 5.56 and 12ga slug and we all know that TSC isn't a reliable wounding mechanism below 1800fps, but "seeing it in the real world" is rather "Yeah...wow...them books was right."

    Hence, I have little interest trying to fling a heavy slug at 1600fps when I could use a 110 Blacktip at 2400ish. Really, I have no interest in 300BLK at all, and sold my DD MK18 10.3" 300BLK upper some time ago. Supersonic 300BLK sounds identical to 5.56 supersonic, to me, and subsonic 300BLK holds no interest for me for the above reasons.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO View Post

    Cutting open two beasts each hit in similar locations with projectiles at varying velocities taught me a lot about how fast a bullet is going and what it is doing.
    Beware of the sample of one, it can lead you to very wrong conclusions.

    I've shot a bunch of deer with 12 gauge slugs, and never had one do as you describe. Often the wound has similar damage to one from a 30/06, except for the larger entrance hole.

    Similarly, subsonic rifle bullets can do a lot of damage, IF the bullet is designed well for the task. (not as much as a 12 ga slug of course but more than enough to kill cleanly) That excludes most bullets from mainstream commercial manufacturers, since they aren't designed for subsonic terminal performance.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Yondering View Post
    Beware of the sample of one, it can lead you to very wrong conclusions.

    I've shot a bunch of deer with 12 gauge slugs, and never had one do as you describe. Often the wound has similar damage to one from a 30/06, except for the larger entrance hole.

    Similarly, subsonic rifle bullets can do a lot of damage, IF the bullet is designed well for the task. (not as much as a 12 ga slug of course but more than enough to kill cleanly) That excludes most bullets from mainstream commercial manufacturers, since they aren't designed for subsonic terminal performance.
    I did use a "hard" slug, not meant for expansion and fragmentation as most fosters will do.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    3,046
    That makes a difference. Bullet design and construction matters a lot more than headstamps.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,570
    If you are suggesting to me that 5.56 kills better and damages more than a 12 ga slug, I will question your marksmanship and never take any subsequent posts on the matter seriously.

    FWIW...I really like 300 BO.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,570
    My backcountry arms are either one or the other

    The-Pointman_3.jpg

    12 GA POINTMAN OR THE 300 BO IN THE PIC BELOW

    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,138
    Quote Originally Posted by diving dave View Post
    I shoot 220 SMK out of my BO with a can all the time. Fun, but for serious use it doesnt pack much of a punch. I've recovered some of the bullets shot through jugs of water and I could reload them, no expansion at all. I think Hornady has come out with a bullet that is supposed to expand at subsonic velocity, but havent tried them yet.
    I wouldn't expect them too. SMKs are all about accuracey. I am mainly interested in the 240s for sub sonic stuff but wondered about them in super sonic since the 300 blk can lunch them around 1500fps depending. They might not have many if any purpose. I have seen almost no data on it and sometimes looking at extreme outliers can stimulate thought processes or even find the perfect niche for something. Sometimes its worth while to try stuff for the heck of it just to see what happens. If anything its more productive then wrining hands and worrying about things one has no control over.

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