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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,275
    Bloodnut...if you dont buy one now, you are going to look like one of those kids in class whose sole purpose is to try to catch someone in some sort of error. So as I said...buy one. We will even have some at the store.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,275
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    But having an open mind does not mean ignoring past experience.
    Ah...that pesky "E word".
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,130
    As for the "E" word, there is a thread titled "The 878 Stakeout" that details the reliability problem with a gas op PGO.

    I wouldn't mind being proven wrong with an improved gas gun, but I'll wait on the sidelines for now.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    2, 1, 13. And a wakeup.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    233
    I love the pump, and used it throughout my LE career and beyond. But...a gas-powered semi auto version of the Pointman (I think I have the model right) with Gabe's folding brace might be a very good alternative.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    1
    First off both a Pump and Semi-Auto Shotguns, when PROPERLY BUILT AND TESTED have certain distinct applications in the Enforcement World.

    Having carried and instructed a few pupils in the enforcement world, (with both Pump-Action and Semiauto SG's) I'll impart my own personal Peanut Gallery Opinion, (PGO)- not to be confused with Pistol Grip Only.

    As we all know the 870P, (not an Express or CHEAP Variant) is a VERY reliable Shotgun and can be loaded with different loads per mission requirements.

    Here's my PGO about Semi-Auto Shotguns;

    FIRST AND FOREMOST;

    A Semiauto SG HAS TO BE BUILT, TUNED AND TESTED BY COMPETENT PERSONNEL.

    I have used a SBS Semi in situation where a 870P or Pump-Action SG wouldn't be practical or a hinderence, (i.e. very close quarters like U/C Cover OPSs, in tight vehicle quarters and such.

    A Semiauto SG can give an Agent/Officer the advantage of IMMEDIATELY delivering SG rounds without any extra physical movements in cycling the action in positions where cycling a pump action is a hindered or not viable.

    One of my favorite Semiauto SG's was an 7.5in BBL Rem 1100 built per spec by Sage in the 1980's.

    The only reason they are no longer made was that the fracturing of the Barrel near the barrel lug due to stress fatigue of Full 00 Loads. Other than that; IF YOU KEPT IT CLEAN IT RAN LIKE A CLOCK and was very reliable, concealable and liked both low and high brass.

    Thanks for following my PGO Rant.

    That Guy

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,275
    Quote Originally Posted by EXPATGUY View Post
    FIRST AND FOREMOST;

    A Semiauto SG HAS TO BE BUILT, TUNED AND TESTED BY COMPETENT PERSONNEL.
    I agree with this completely, and will add that "competent personnel" are few and far between.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #57
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    13,750
    As I understand it a semiauto gas operated gun of any type to be reliable enough for combat needs to be at least a little over gassed. My AKs are that way from the factory and I am setting up my ARs to be that way. Means more recoil than from a gun that is more finally 'balanced'. So that removes a little of the possible recoil benefits of the semiauto over the pump. There are some recoil buffering systems relative to the traditional PGO pump gun, that I have not see that applied to the bird's head grips that are being used on the 14 inch barreled shot guns yet. I see the more learned people here saying that they do not see the merit of the semiauto over the manual pump operated relative to recoil. Since I am not knowledgeable I will listen and see how this develops. I have not taken the plunge yet into this world of short repeating shotguns and will not do so until I get other things squared away.
    Below picture of traditional pistol grip with felt recoil reduction. I have not seen anything of this sort of grip designed for shapes compatible with the guns like the TAC-14. I also understand that it just might not be useful with such guns. I just do not have the knowledge from experience to say.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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