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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    159
    a j frame SI course? when? where? O' my that would be a great!

  2. #102
    Anyone know of a j-frame course being taught? They’re making a major comeback in LE work from what I’ve seen.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Arizona's Desert
    Posts
    332
    A while back I got the SI "Compact Pistol" DVD with Jon Payne. It was removed from the store, probably due to audio issues (not a problem in my book). If there is interest, SI may consider it being reborn as a streaming video.

    I shot with a S&W Mod. 36 in my very first CCW class; one problem would be that instruction would slow down to a crawl due to everyone constantly reloading. Another issue is that .38 special isn't a mass market item like 9mm, so it tends to pricey, if you can get it.

    The reasons for a J frame being in your inventory have already been mentioned. But one other reason for the viability of the small frame is that most professional buildings today are gun free zones; total concealment is a necessity. If there's a compromise of the weapon's presence, it would be doubtful that a criminal referral would follow, but professional damage is a concern.
    Last edited by Cacti Rat; 11-21-2020 at 04:57 PM.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nearly Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    337
    I still look for a high quality j-frame training - something that goes beyond simple modes of carry. The j-frame still has its place, especially when working in NPE’s when you just can’t get away with anything larger. I spend more time with my j-frame and my seecamp than anything else.
    “How can I shoot people? Shooting people is easy. It is the simple application of the fundamentals of marksmanship. The hard part is ensuring that I have the physical strength to prevail, the moral strength to know when it is right to kill, and the mental strength to articulate the aftermath such that I maintain my freedom while they experience what comes next in the afterlife.”

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Salyards View Post
    but my thought here is that the grip of the gun is the hardest part to conceal
    Because something is generally true doesn't make it specifically true in every situation.

    For a pocket gun the *barrel* is usually the dividing line between what you can and can't stick in there. If your pocket is 6 inches deep and the OAL of the gun is 6 inches, you ain't hiding it. Nibble a bit off the barrel and it disappears.

    For a "hideout gun" where speed to acquisition is secondary to deep concealment, again a long barrel reduces the places you can hide it.

    The grip of the firearm NEEDS to be big enough to fit your hand. It can be barely big enough, but it must be.

    It is a balance in the presence of severe constraints.

    but I just can’t see having the footprint of a medium or full size gun and pairing that with the capability of a small sized gun.
    It doesn't have the "foot print". Against the advice of a few here, I have a Ruger LCP. I also have a Glock 43, 26 and 19. I have a grip sleeve on the LCP so that it's big enough and sticky enough that I can control it (I have large hands and longer fingers. One whit once noted that I was well hung for a lesbian). The sleeve on the LCP doesn't give the gun the "footprint" of the 43. The 43 won't fit into the same pockets that the LCP will, and the 43 will fit in places the 26 won't.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    In the good Old South
    Posts
    606
    Another attribute to this type of pistol is the ability to not leave those pesky cartridge cases laying around for evidence...
    Dave

    "If your sport does not put grease, blood, or dirt under your fingernails, then it's just a game!"

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,689
    Quote Originally Posted by Redbug View Post
    Another attribute to this type of pistol is the ability to not leave those pesky cartridge cases laying around for evidence...
    I've heard that consistently for decades, not only from the internet. That piece of "conventional wisdom" goes back to the BI era (that's before internet) and I've heard it said by guys who weren't just talkers. Bad guys with long prison terms in their past said it. I have been guilty of repeating it. But....... I have reason to question the actual validity.

    Over the years I've taken to finding people with real experience and asking questions. I've asked a few guys who have investigated more than a few murders about this. (Any of you here who fit that description, please do chime in) No one I've yet heard from can say with certainty that the empty cartridges on the scene, or the lack of them, has made a real weight on the proverbial balance of catching a shooter.

    I'm not saying it's definitely a non issue. Lack of information doesn't PROVE squat. I am saying that the piece of "conventional wisdom" about revolvers not leaving evidence seems to be more phantom than substance.

    Anyone with real info they are willing to share or to elude to, please do.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    In the good Old South
    Posts
    606
    Quote Originally Posted by jlwilliams View Post
    I've heard that consistently for decades, not only from the internet. That piece of "conventional wisdom" goes back to the BI era (that's before internet) and I've heard it said by guys who weren't just talkers. Bad guys with long prison terms in their past said it. I have been guilty of repeating it. But....... I have reason to question the actual validity.

    Over the years I've taken to finding people with real experience and asking questions. I've asked a few guys who have investigated more than a few murders about this. (Any of you here who fit that description, please do chime in) No one I've yet heard from can say with certainty that the empty cartridges on the scene, or the lack of them, has made a real weight on the proverbial balance of catching a shooter.

    I'm not saying it's definitely a non issue. Lack of information doesn't PROVE squat. I am saying that the piece of "conventional wisdom" about revolvers not leaving evidence seems to be more phantom than substance.

    Anyone with real info they are willing to share or to elude to, please do.
    That's interesting JL. I thought anything left would be used as evidence.
    Dave

    "If your sport does not put grease, blood, or dirt under your fingernails, then it's just a game!"

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    892
    The casing is usually used "after" an arrest has been made to match the round to the weapon; however, the casing generally doesn't guide the investigation one way or another. I have used casings in several ways to prove the "killer" in instances like ones where there were multiple weapons used (whether same caliber or not) to determine who fired the fatal rounds. Again, the cartridge generally matters after the arrest was made and not before. As the laws of evidence go, the least amount left - regardless of what it is - is the best way to go.
    Last edited by Chaos; 11-28-2020 at 08:45 AM.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    46,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
    As the laws of evidence go, the least amount left - regardless of what it is - is the best way to go.
    In THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS, which are not all of them, yes.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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