Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    129

    Default The bolt gun in today's world

    Looking over Gabe's old thread on what guy's are running for bolt guns brought this subject to mind, but it's kind of it's own subject, so I thought I'd just start a new thread. Today's precision semi autos are awesome, and as I see it, there are basically two reasons for a bolt gun in today's world: innate precision, and cartridge selection. I say innate precision because there are a few applications, like shooting F-class matches for instance, where only consistent sub .5 MOA performance will do. For me, the other benefits of a semi-auto trump this capability about every time, but for some tasks (or some people's preferences) this capability is THE priority. For these folks, a bolt gun is really still king. Second, and more important (but related) to my mind, is cartridge selection. There are some great long range cartridges out there, and very few semi autos that will cycle them with combat worthy reliability, or shoot them with the extreme precision needed to match their impressive ballistic potential to a target. .338 LM, .300WM, the .300 short mags, and many 7mm cartridges from 7mm SAUM to 7mm remington, .284 win. etc. etc. all fit in this category. These cartridges all need a weapon that can cycle them, and that has very great innate precision to hit small stuff very far away, so to me, right now, bolt action is pretty much the way to go if you want to take advantage of the ballistic potential of these cartridges. Anyhow, just some stuff that was cycling through my head on the way home from work. BTW, my current choices are a Citizen Arms 20" AR-10/SR-25 type sniper system in .308, an SI 5.56 20in. upper on a Lancer Lower with a Geissele, and a .280 AI chambered bolt gun in an Eliseo RTM tactical chasis with a Pierce tube gun action. This pretty much covers all my bases.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    387
    For F-class I'll continue with the 6.5 Creed w/140 ELD match long before I go back to any .30 ...
    anonymity is underrated

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    13,742
    F-Class is not that a gun game? Perhaps in that genre a 0.5 moa bolt gun has a place. In real life a semiauto that does 1 moa is better. The AR platform will handle the 6.5 g which is fine to 600 yards or more.
    F-Open rifles can be chambered for any cartridge up to .35 caliber, weigh no more than 22 pounds,
    Let us see you all tote a 22 lbs rifle into the field.
    Should not your training at least be somewhat similar to what is needed to be done in real life.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    McKinney
    Posts
    1,588
    The bolt gun still has its place as a fighting rifle for the reasons you mentioned. If go to war was the order of the day (and I could have ANY gun) I think I would need to be convinced that more than 50% of my shots would be 800+ and one shot stops were a necessity to select a bolt gun.
    Otherwise; something semi. Something Recce style (16”ish and scope no more than 3-9) if I expect to clear rooms and take 600 yard shots. As the targets move out and my anticipated engagements get more specialized I would select a more specialized rifle and I’d eventually want something like an Accuracy International 338 Lapua with a 5-25.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,060
    The greatest/best shot I ever made was with bolt action rifles. But it was almost 40 years ago.

    These days I live in a place where 200 yds. would be a long shot and 100 yds. is easily the average distance you can see/shoot.

    While AR15/M16 rifles 40 years ago were a joke when it comes to real accuracy the AR15's today can be scary accurate and reliable.

    Not sure I could do the things I did when I lived in the mountains with an AR but it would be fun to try.

    I've kept my M700 varmint special, but I've not shot it in almost 30 years.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Made it to Free America
    Posts
    13,036
    In many places SEMIs are not legal for hunting, so a bolt gun makes sense. I still have a love for Double Rifles and Single shots; BUT bolt guns are so much cheaper then a Double Rifle and even a decent Single shot costs more, plus theres the advantage of a 5 shot internal mag (or box fed) Bolt guns. My personal favorite for hunting is the Blazer because of its swop-able barrels. That said the, Remington 700 really rules the Bolt gun tactical/hunting world

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,264
    The biggest issues I see with bolt rifles are that -

    a). People try to cheap out (nothing new).

    b). People try to convince themselves (and others) that it is a front line combat weapon.

    c). People think it is only about accuracy
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    McKinney
    Posts
    1,588
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    In many places SEMIs are not legal for hunting, so a bolt gun makes sense. I still have a love for Double Rifles and Single shots; BUT bolt guns are so much cheaper then a Double Rifle and even a decent Single shot costs more, plus theres the advantage of a 5 shot internal mag (or box fed) Bolt guns. My personal favorite for hunting is the Blazer because of its swop-able barrels. That said the, Remington 700 really rules the Bolt gun tactical/hunting world
    PA is the only state I know of with such a law still on the books.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,340
    In my mind the bolt gun is all about distance (1000+). The reason for my thinking on this is:

    1) They can use cartridges not commonly available in semi-auto platforms.

    2) The distance makes the need for rapid follow-up shots less of an emergency.

    3) The distance makes the need for high-capacity less urgent.

    4) The distance precludes the need for quick reloads.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    129
    I'm pretty much on board with what Greg and Gabe are saying. As for being a combat weapon, they are a ballistic tool for a certain job. The m24 and it's .300 winmag and .338LM brethren have sent quite a few jihadis to hell in the last 15 years, and the bitching was both bitter and insessant when the Army switched to the M110 a few years back. However, the reasoning for doing so was sound in my opinion, although admittedly I'm still kicking myself for not picking up an M24 when I had a chance.

    Sent from my KYOCERA-E6560 using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •