Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31
  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    Pistols aren't death rays and some assailants more resemble jackals than lions. Colombian CQB shots will not get nods of approval from investigators.
    There are some additional points -

    1). Basically, you fit under the same rules as the police do. So if they would be justified in firing a head shot at a downed adversary, so would we. The only instance where a tactic such as this is acceptable is in a clear active shooter/jihadist event where you can explain that you believed a bomb vest was evident. The Counter Detonation Shot is approved in LE circles in such instances ("Can You Afford The Time To Handcuff them?"), but such is not good to go for the mugger in the parking lot.

    2). The entire rendering aid thing is never a consideration for a fluid event. To the children of Ayoob that suggest such things I would say show me the case where a good guy watched a bad guy die and was castigated for it.
    T
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    120
    - What tends to be the rule/guideline for items collected as evidence?

    I expect any weapon on me to be taken as evidence, even if it wasn't used. But what about items such as car keys or cell phone (assuming no video/audio of the event was recorded)?


    P.S.- Thanks for starting this thread and another book from SI would be most welcomed. Any chance of a digital version?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    6,975
    This is interesting. I am only familiar with Garrity in an academic way; I have no professional experience with it. I'll look into some of this on my own and see what I come up with. I'll report back. It will be a while.
    Virtute et Armis

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
    Posts
    3,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    There are some additional points -

    1). Basically, you fit under the same rules as the police do. So if they would be justified in firing a head shot at a downed adversary, so would we. The only instance where a tactic such as this is acceptable is in a clear active shooter/jihadist event where you can explain that you believed a bomb vest was evident. The Counter Detonation Shot is approved in LE circles in such instances ("Can You Afford The Time To Handcuff them?"), but such is not good to go for the mugger in the parking lot.

    2). The entire rendering aid thing is never a consideration for a fluid event. To the children of Ayoob that suggest such things I would say show me the case where a good guy watched a bad guy die and was castigated for it.
    T
    And you CAN NOT be compelled to render aid whether it is a car wreck , a drowning or someone you shot. In fact I argue that unless the guy is in handcuffs you are probably going to have to fight him to render medical aid to him. That is SUPER dangerous to close distance with someone who just tried to kill you , who you had to SHOOT to prevent from killing you and now you disarm yourself and close distance, lay hands on him and try to render aid? Really? What could possibly go wrong? Even if he is unconscious , as soon as blood gets back into his brain he will likely “wake up” doing what he was doing when he went out...FIGHTING you! So be super careful about trying to play EMT on dudes you just had to shoot.
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG
    Gung Ho Chuan Association

    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Harris View Post
    And you CAN NOT be compelled to render aid whether it is a car wreck , a drowning or someone you shot. In fact I argue that unless the guy is in handcuffs you are probably going to have to fight him to render medical aid to him. That is SUPER dangerous to close distance with someone who just tried to kill you , who you had to SHOOT to prevent from killing you and now you disarm yourself and close distance, lay hands on him and try to render aid? Really? What could possibly go wrong? Even if he is unconscious , as soon as blood gets back into his brain he will likely “wake up” doing what he was doing when he went out...FIGHTING you! So be super careful about trying to play EMT on dudes you just had to shoot.
    On or off duty, I'm not walking up on a guy I've had to shoot. And I don't carry cuffs off duty. And any medical gear I have on me is for the use of my family, my friends and any innocent victims.

    I'm not Doctor Marcus effing Welby, no matter how many druggies I've done CPR on (or to).
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 2, 16. And a wakeup.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,026
    More on using wife (if there) or others to call police, describe the event and identify you as the good guy (describe clothing—coached by you?) take crime scene photos, call lawyer, preserve & point out evidence to investigators.
    “Men of energy of character must have enemies; because there are two sides to every question, and taking one with decision, and acting on it with effect, those who take the other will of course be hostile in proportion as they feel that effect.” —Thomas Jefferson (1817)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    214
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    Channelling others: if I fail to give first aid to the criminal I shoot and wound, will that be used as evidence of malice or criminal intent on my part?

    doubtful.

    in regards to this, if there is time to 'make-the-call' regarding a shooting and describe 'who & what' my course of action would be to let whoever know the bad guy is down, please send medical help.
    Other than that I'm not about to touch them under any circumstances, they are disease free? How do you know this to be the fact?
    They are bleeding out? Too damned bad, you just had bonafide reason to shoot them, they chose and they lost.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,604
    Quote Originally Posted by CB3 View Post
    More on using wife (if there) or others to call police, describe the event and identify you as the good guy (describe clothing—coached by you?) take crime scene photos, call lawyer, preserve & point out evidence to investigators.
    Unless your wife

    1). Knows the right things to say in an unemotional manner.

    2. Knows what dispatchers and subsequently the officers need to hear.

    I would not relegate that duty. And it goes for husbands as well.

    I honestly cant think of a reason for YOU to not handle that yourself.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,604
    First aid?

    Not my job...not doing it. Not going to be a problem. Question to you...do you really want to save the dude that just tried to kill you?

    In the other post there was mention of the wife calling the kawyer. I will caution you that such should not be one of the primary things you do...it is a secondary matter. The lawyer will not help you get listed as a victim, relay info to the reaponding units, nor present the exculpatory info. He wasnt there...and isnt there.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    If a family member is involved in a shooting, can I as a cop be compelled under Garrity to give a statement in the criminal investigation? Does this trump spousal privilege?
    Sam,

    I would say no. Garrity is only for administrative investigations of employees. Unless you were on duty with the family and were part of the incident it wouldn't apply, and only for the admin investigation. Statements made under Garrity, because they are made under duress, should not be admissible. The times I was read Garrity it was always an on duty incident. When things happened off duty I was only mirandized.

    Jim Miller
    ISA 6:8

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •