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  1. #41
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    4. Will the 220 function with .40?
    It should cycle fine because it's made to run most commercial 10mm that is essentially 40 S&W in a longer case. However, it's not safe in a Sig (or most other brands) and can potentially result in case head separations. It is safe in a Glock, in that it'll either fire safely or not at all.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    2,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Yondering View Post
    It should cycle fine because it's made to run most commercial 10mm that is essentially 40 S&W in a longer case. However, it's not safe in a Sig (or most other brands) and can potentially result in case head separations. It is safe in a Glock, in that it'll either fire safely or not at all.
    K-THX!
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  3. #43
    Nice comparison of 220 vs G20. I think the 220 is a better choice for 10mm carry than a 1911. More reliable and stronger.

    Seems to me that FNX 45 improved on G21. And, that a 10mm version could hold 17 in the mag. I'd be a sucker for such a gun. Also, for a 227 in 10mm.

    To me, 10mm is the big step up to magnum, while the 45 is best for lessening indoor blast and for sub-sonic suppressed. 10mm penetrates better and makes for a far shot.

    G20s are realistic monsters, unlike say a Desert Eagle, or that massive military HK. However, in the interest of being more practical they could really use slide contouring, and a beefier dust cover, like the FNX has. Also, the rounded slide contour of hammer fired guns aids in concealment over striker-fired guns. And more so in these largest Glocks.

    I can conceal an FNX 45 with the flush 14 round magazine floor plate. It does print though, in the 4 o' clock outside pants leather holster. That is the difference in their "concealibilty," how much less an FNX prints than a G20/21.

    Allright, I admit, I'd carry a gen 4 G20 concealed before the FNX, in a severe environment. It's stronger, simpler, lighter and far more powerful. The FNX 45 though for current threat levels, due to its superior ergonomics and lesser printing.

    Unfortunately, appendix carry doesn't work for my 215lb 6' build. I'm athletic but carry a slight belly. Athletic enough to have worked as a surf lifeguard for my Florida city in 2015, so not too much sniggering at this 1962 classic please.

    At first people would kid me about the loaded weight of guns like the FNX 45 and G20, and it seemed like an insurmountable disadvantage. Not so though, because you can carry Lehigh Xtreme Defense etc that are light bullet weight. And this is where 10mm has another advantage over 45, it's bullet weights are less.

    For instance, my G20 with Arredondo should weigh 33oz, loaded with 20 X 46grn Magsafe SWAT (case weight is 100 grain). I was lucky to buy 900 at 69 cents each, but Lehigh Defense are also available, loaded or just the bullets. They range from 100 to 115 grain, so your mag weighs not much more than an equivalent capacity 9mm Glock mag (9mm cases weigh 60 grain). By contrast, 20 rounds of 230 grain 45 should bring a Glock 21 up to 42 ounces.

    10mm provides 200 fps more than their 90 grain +P+ 9mm, and for a 115 grain. It's noteworthy that the 115 grain 40 caliber Xtreme Defense bullet creates a 3 "permanent wound cavity in 40 S&W and 3.125 in 10mm. Which makes them the most deadly pistol loads. The 90 grain 9mm +P, the 120 grain 45, and the 90 grain 357 Sig; only manage 2.5".

    If you reload, a 60c bullet (115 grain) is putting you squarely in 10mm training ammo prices. So, what I'm showing is that your fully loaded Glock 20 need weigh no more than a Glock 17 (using 115 grain), and will be only two rounds short in capacity. Into the bargain is enhanced terminal ballistics too, and all these advantages for the scant effort of reloading a straight wall case.

    Seriously, against humans you can launch 115 grain bullets at 1700 fps that penetrate deeply and possibly create 3.125 inch permanent wound cavities, if ballistic gel is anything to go by. Then, with a hunting barrel and heavy cast bullets you can turn right around and hunt and defend yourself from gnarley beasts in the wilderness. That's one hell of a flexible caliber!


    The stats on the Lehigh load, whose equivalent is available much cheaper elsewhere: https://www.lehighdefense.com/collec...ant=5403093508

    Lehigh bullets for 60c:
    https://www.lehighdefense.com/collec...nt=10153340356

    Or less here:
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...free-box-of-50

    Holy shit! Underwood runs it at 1700 fps, and at a very decent $1.35 cost, for carry ammo:
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...free-box-of-20

    I fully understand others qualms over loads like Magsafe SWAT, but I carry a further four magazines, now of 20 rounds each, in my Hillpeoplegear chest rig. I may switch what's in the gun to Xtreme Defense but the extra mags need to remain with lighter ammo.
    Last edited by endsoftheearth; 09-10-2018 at 08:08 PM.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    40
    So the KKM comp is aluminum, not the greatest material for comps, in my opinion. Could a KKM aluminum comp be NP3’ed and thus extend its service life significantly? A Glock 20 milled by SI and refinished in NP3 to include the barrel and comp would be a nice fishing gun! Really dig the look of FDE frames and NP3 SI slides lately.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Southeast United States
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    581
    Here's an interesting video on ammo velocity and penetration differences between the G20 vs. G29. The bottom line is -- not surprisingly -- the G20 is easier to shoot, but the loss of velocity is minimal, making a concealed carry 10mm viable. Penetration of both ammo types -- the Underwood and the Lehigh -- is amazing in both guns. Great myth-busting regarding barrel lengths and velocity.

    Redneck Zen
    "Be careful what you get good at."

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    4,448
    On my to do list: buy a G29 and run enough Underwood through it to prove reliability. I had a 29.3 eons ago and it was the only unreliable (with heavy, boutique rounds) Glock I've owned.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Lost in the Sierras
    Posts
    8
    This really isn't a "mythbuster" more than a need to understand the way the 10mm burns its propellant compared to others. The 10mm will have softer "felt recoil" than other cartridges of comparable power. Shoot a G20 then shoot a 686 in .357 and you'll see what I mean. The 10mm has a very sharp, rapid and short pressure wave, or spike if you will, compared to the .357 which is long and drawn out. You'll notice that a longer barrel (over 6") will not significantly increase velocity. That's because most of the powder has burned and pressure is already dropping. .357 can use a 14" barrel well. So in as much as you won't see big velocity increases, neither do you see big drops. You will see more flash however, but nothing like the .357 out of a similar sized barrel.

  8. #48
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    Jan 2012
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    NW Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulezoo View Post
    This really isn't a "mythbuster" more than a need to understand the way the 10mm burns its propellant compared to others. The 10mm will have softer "felt recoil" than other cartridges of comparable power. Shoot a G20 then shoot a 686 in .357 and you'll see what I mean. The 10mm has a very sharp, rapid and short pressure wave, or spike if you will, compared to the .357 which is long and drawn out. You'll notice that a longer barrel (over 6") will not significantly increase velocity. That's because most of the powder has burned and pressure is already dropping. .357 can use a 14" barrel well. So in as much as you won't see big velocity increases, neither do you see big drops. You will see more flash however, but nothing like the .357 out of a similar sized barrel.
    That really is not accurate, unless you're talking about the "10mm Lite" loads that are just 40 S&W equivalent. Of course, most of the rounds tested in that TFB video above fit that category, as do most of the cheaper commercial 10mm practice ammo and some of the "defense" loads. None of those are really representative of what real 10mm does or can do in various barrel lengths.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    787
    I have a 29 that i have ran a lot of underwood through it has been boringly reliable. I need to get a RMR on it soon. I wonder how they hold up to that kind of recoil over and over? Emptying a magazine full into a chest sized target rapidly is not an issue for me either like Iíve heard discussed. Obviously not as quick as a 9mm but not terribly slow either. Itís a monster for a compact Glock.


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  10. #50
    My next barrel for my G20 gen 3 will be an 0E Glock 40 with the gen 5 rifling, God willing. Then, get it cut down and threaded for a comp. I'm done with aftermarket G20 barrels.

    A Holosun RDS and cut and suppressor night sights by SI. 115gr Xtreme Defense in the gun and Magsafe SWAT in the other 4 mags. Comp yet to be decided and carried SOB inverted or Hill people gear chest rig with trigger guard holster.

    Arredondo on all mags. Grip activated Crimson trace white light. When cycling the jersey pocket will be over gun and printing in that area to be expected. Weight will be phenomenally light.

    Endo stock adapter/brace in a frame mounted cycling pouch which can connect to the HPG chest rig (as needed). Band to hold cycle pouch to abdomen, when it hangs beneath HPG rig (via the clips provided with HPG chest rig).

    Y'all are going to think I'm BS-ing. In our 1991 winter I took a cycle, from our house in Durban North on down the east coast of South Africa. In the Karrimor fanny pack attached to the small of my back was Glock 20 gen 2.

    It could have been the next year, or the one after, or the one after that. I have no way of knowing. :) I do know that with 155grn Gold Dots at 1350fps, and two spare mags, it was very comforting.

    As we see, the situation for the G20 has come a long way since then. In every aspect of the gun there is revolutionary aftermarket kit.

    In the future, GW, something I never foresaw owning. A "hushpuppy." But, only if it's deregulated. I have no intention of keeping Uncle Sam appraised of my every change of address for the rest of my life.
    Last edited by endsoftheearth; 10-10-2018 at 11:43 AM.

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