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Thread: Hiroshima Day

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the Impaler View Post
    Yes and no. The Soviets had recently intervened. At Potsdam, when Truman informed Stalin that we had a new weapon, Stalin said he hoped it would soon be deployed against the Japanese. Stalin was well aware of the Manhattan Project from Klaus Fuchs and others.

    The firebombing of Tokyo was devastating to morale and yes, was arguably worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There was really no military reason for it but LeMay had come up with the concept of "morale bombing" which meant that civilian areas were now legitimate targets (see Dresden).
    The Japanese had in the early 1900's fought imperial Russia and in latter years the Soviet Red army and the Chinese Red Army.
    The Soviet–Japanese border conflicts (also known as the Soviet-Japanese Border War) was a series of battles and skirmishes between the forces of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Empire of Japan, as well as their respective client states of Mongolia and Manchukuo. Lasting from 1932 to 1939, most of the conflicts were small border skirmishes until May 1939, with the notable exception of the Battle of Lake Khasan. The border conflicts were resolved in a series of engagements at Khalkin-Gol, where the Soviets and Mongolians inflicted a decisive defeat on the Japanese. This resulted in the Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact. It should not be confused with the conflict in August 1945 when the Soviet Union declared war in support of the other Allies of World War II and launched the Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation.
    The Russians did end up with one northern Island that still the Japanese consider to be theirs. The Red Army as Stalin officially declared war in 1945 rolled up the Japanese forces and gave the Japanese weapons and equipment to the Red Chinese Army.
    Then there was civil war in China. Korea was partitioned between the USA and Russian and then there was the Police action known as the Korean War and also the French Indochina War, and then Vietnam. Russian has had clashes with their former allies the Chinese. Not a whole lot of peace in that part of the world.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the Impaler View Post
    Yes and no. The Soviets had recently intervened. At Potsdam, when Truman informed Stalin that we had a new weapon, Stalin said he hoped it would soon be deployed against the Japanese. Stalin was well aware of the Manhattan Project from Klaus Fuchs and others.

    The firebombing of Tokyo was devastating to morale and yes, was arguably worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There was really no military reason for it but LeMay had come up with the concept of "morale bombing" which meant that civilian areas were now legitimate targets (see Dresden).
    Nothing new about that. The Germans did it first in Spain with the bombing of Guernica. Was it not LeMay that wanted to bomb Vietnam back to the Stoneage.
    LeMay advocated a sustained strategic bombing campaign ... And we would shove them back into the Stone Age with Air power or Naval power—not with ground forces". ... I want to save lives on both sides".
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    There are always agendas and I certainly do not consider the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to be justified even if the Japanese thought it would aid their imperial ambitions to conquer Asia. Strange thinking for sure.
    Attacking the USA did not give them a way out in the long run. Likely they thought it would benefit them and they were wrong.
    If as you say the US wanted the Japanese to attack us likely the USA planners also failed understand just how effective such an attack would be.
    I do know that by 1940, if not earlier the USA was gearing up for war since that is about the time that Roosevelt started to build arsenals throughout the USA for manufacture of munitions. They went up fast. One called the Joliet Army Ammunition Plant where I worked at on clean up of, families living on 35,000 acres of seized land were given 30 days to leave their farms.

    I consider the pearl harbor attack one of the most daring, successful attacks ever planned. But the Japanese won the battle, but set the stage for a war that would cost them horribly.
    Admiral Harry Yarnell proved in 1932 that the fleet was vulnerable to an an aerial attack and launched enough ships and aircraft to wipe out the entire Pearl Harbor fleet. The Japanese used the exact same plan that Yarnell had used in 1932 with the same results. I think the Japanese underestimated the willingness of the US to stay out of the war.

  4. #24
    It was LeMay. I think it was his idea to stop using Agent Orange and just defoliate Vietnam with nuclear weapons. :)

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=Vlad the Impaler;1917928]Admiral Harry Yarnell proved in 1932 that the fleet was vulnerable to an an aerial attack and launched enough ships and aircraft to wipe out the entire Pearl Harbor fleet. The Japanese used the exact same plan that Yarnell had used in 1932 with the same results. I think the Japanese underestimated the willingness of the US to stay out of the war.[/QUOTE]
    The Japanese underestimated what the USA could do when mobilized under a strong president and a willing congress. In 1940 the USA had not really recovered from the depression. It was still a predominately rural country and leaders likely to the Japanese did not show the exterior sophistication that was evidenced by the leaders with the other countries they dealt with. USA was a terribly long way away from Japan by 1940 standards.
    In WWII most of the left and right was for the war. It was very strongly supported by the whole population after the sneak attack destroyed the pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor.

    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #26
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    General Curtis Lemay was a trend setter from the beginning of his career. An ace navigator,(before GPS) he demonstrated to some none too pleased naval brass that aerial attack on their fleet was doable, repeatable and effective. They tried to upbraid him, but he had Army leadership on his side, and continued his efforts to build what became the Air Force. Loved to work hard, and play hard. Would frequently be found around the motor pool, building up hot rods with the troops. I believe if his experience and expertise were put into the 'plan of the day', Viet Nam would have been a very short foray indeed. Most every undertaking he set his mind to, he prevailed. A shame that conflict, as so many others, was run by non-warriors.

  7. #27
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    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...3-years-later/

    Any book recommendations on LeMay?
    Let another man praise you, and not your own mouth;
    A stranger, and not your own lips.
    Proverbs 27:2

    You will fight like you train...

  8. #28
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    Lemay: the life and wars of general Curtis Lemay by Warren Kozak...Iron Eagle: the turbulent life of general Curtis Lemay by Thomas M. Coffey...LeMay by Barrett Tillman
    I enjoyed Coffey's version overall, but each has it's perspective on this remarkable american.

  9. #29
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    In the Russian-Japanese War of 1904-5 the Japanese started off the war with a sneak attack on the Russian Imperial fleet and became the first modern Asian country to beat a Western one. Not hard to figure they would try the same tactic in Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt wanted war in Europe and the way to get it was to piss off the American people. It worked.
    "Stupidity is thinking you can continually outvote an endless stream of third world socialists"

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