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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
    Your approach virtually guarantees that you'll have no say in the initial inquiry, that your tragectory through the legal system is set by others and that your lawyer will make his next boat payment.
    Exactly this.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #12
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    Mine

    Quote Originally Posted by blackie View Post
    I disagree.

    Really? Let me ask you Blackie...how many gunfights have you been in? How many men have you killed? Have you ever been investigated, sued? Any of those things? If not, then you are basing your opinions on things others have told you...most likely attornies that have a very limited view on how homicide investigations happen. We...Sam, Jonathan, and I...among others can answer in the affirmative to all of the above questions. For you to simply say you disagree is like arguing the world is flat without ever having left your village.

    This is not an issue where everyone's opinion is equally valid. They are not.


    If the police are investigating you, you have something to worry about. As soon as the police start investigating you, you should start thinking ahead to the possibility of a trial.

    Like Sam said...YOU are not the focus of the investigation...but taking the "I dindu noffin...I aint sayin Nuffin" will in fact and irrevocably make YOU the focus of the investigation.

    Asking for a lawyer shuts the police questioning of you down. And if it doesn't, you can probably get whatever you say thrown out as evidence against you. It will also make the police look bad if they continue questioning after you invoke your right to counsel.

    Asking for a lawyer will stop them from talking with you, yes. But they will not hold out writing the report waiting for the attorney to arrive in his helicopter. The report will be written before overtime and it will list YOU as the suspect. As I said...only in cases where there has been deception, clear cut murder, or where the information that classifies you as a victim is withheld, will the shooter even have to consider a trial. Trials are for suspects.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't say anything to the police. But it would be limited.

    "Officer...I am still a little shaken up. I want to cooperate with you guys, but can I have my lawyer present during questioning? Do you mind calling my lawyer for me...here is his card. Please update him with my status and location. I will be happy to answer your questions with my counsel present".

    The Officer - "Sarge, the shooter hasn't said shit and is lawyering up. We really have no idea what happened here other than a really vague statement about fear for his life...what do you want me to do?"

    The Sergeant - "When are you end of watch?"

    The Officer - "I am already on overtime"

    The Sergeant - "List him as a suspect and book him for murder...it can be sorted out later. Drop off your OT slip with the report".


    There is definitely an element of social engineering that goes into encounters with the justice system. I don't want to be dishonest with police, so I don't want to say I have a headache if I don't have one. Requesting a lawyer will shutdown the investigation in the same way.

    No...anyone that told you your statement will "shut off" the investigation is a fool. Don't be an equal fool and take foolish advice.

    It may piss off the police, but the judge should see it for what it is. The judge will be the one that decides if you stay in jail, not the police.

    And in the meantime, in case you simply didn't get it the first time -

    Being listed as a suspect will cost you between $25,000 to $100,000. The police report will NOT be re-written.



    • As a suspect you are arrested for homicide or attempted homicide.
    • You are booked and if you want to go home, you will have to post bail.
    • There is usually no bail for murder under certain circumstances.
    • Other murder arrests have a $1 million dollar bail - that means that you must come up with $100K and collateral for the rest
    • And the god-like attorney that descends from the clouds the next day will not be free either. Minimum defense for murder begins at $50K



    Blackie...you have no concept of how this works in real life.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #13
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    Gabe,

    while i I know you don’t agree with Ayoob, your statements in bold above align about 90% with what he teaches regarding the aftermath of a shooting.
    I carry two kinds of trauma kits. One for fixing it and one for causing it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hartzell View Post
    Gabe,

    while i I know you don’t agree with Ayoob, your statements in bold above align about 90% with what he teaches regarding the aftermath of a shooting.
    Its the last 10% that comes from firsthand experience in killing...and investigating killing...and being investigated for killing
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #15
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    Picking the low-hanging fruit:

    If you say nothing, it greatly simplifies my report. Alternatively, nothing I hate more than someone who lawyers up and then won't STFU on the way to the jail, either because he's drunk or high or a compulsive motormouth.

    A judge, and not necessarily your trial judge, decides if you stay in jail, but why go in the first place if you don't have to? The judge most assuredly does not decide whether you are arrested. And in most jurisdictions, the prosecutor and the jury have more power over whether you are incarcerated post-verdict, and for how long.

    Your lawyer will tell you not to talk. He has a financial interest in doing so, sure, but he is not onscene and so cannot assess the impact of what you say to officers regarding what has occurred. It's better for him to respond at a bail hearing, knowing you have said nothing. He can then, usually, control the information flow. He cannot control the investigation.

    We are not waiting for your lawyer to respond to the scene, by the way, and you're not talking to him until the scene is secure and it is safe for me to allow you to do so.
    Last edited by Papa; 08-06-2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: grammar and punctuation
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

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    "What cannot be remedied must be endured."

    360. And a wakeup.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    We are not waiting for your lawyer to respond to the scene, by the way, and you're not talking to him until the scene is secure and it is safe for me to allow you to do so.
    Here's the main point in my mind about clamming up. If you say nothing you can't influence the direction of the investigation in any way and Lawyering up doesn't stop the investigation and only may reduce/stop the questioning. If I can positively influence the direction of the investigation and use micro-statements that put myself squarely in the "victim" column why would I hesitate to capitalize on that opportunity.

    Make no mistake gang, this is your opportunity. If you chose not to use it that will end up on you, your finances, and your family. If you use it appropriately the benefits are immense.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  7. #17
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    This is hilarious...it is like guys wanting to argue that disciplined eating and judicious exercise will make them stronger and fitter. Its like they want to argue and diasgree that if they eat a pizza a day washed down by a sixer of beer they will be just as fit because somebody said so at a class once.

    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    This is hilarious...it is like guys wanting to argue that disciplined eating and judicious exercise will make them stronger and fitter. Its like they want to argue and diasgree that if they eat a pizza a day washed down by a sixer of beer they will be just as fit because somebody said so at a class once.

    Horse to water my friend..... seems a lot like discussions we had about 10 years ago (and continue to have) about red dot pistols.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I don’t know what that means and don’t have any association with groups like Force Science Institute. What is it he’d have you do?h
    Here ya go -
    http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/254.html

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joatmon View Post
    In your mind, what parts of this do you think apply? I read the whole thing and there is hardly anything that relates to the content of this thread as far as I can tell. What specifically are you talking about?

    This is exactly why I hate it when people use links as a post without including excerpts or explanation because then I have to go in a read the whole thing and there might only be 1 sentence worth reading. Posting links without at least your take on the article is lazy.
    Last edited by Greg Nichols; 08-09-2018 at 08:01 AM.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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