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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I am sure its not intended but some of this is coming across as if holstering your gun is going to some how cause problems or call righteous actions into question. I can think of a few instances where holstering would be a good idea. Like rendering aid to yourself, another person or some other things. Until the place is crawling with cops you won't be able to let your guard down but there could be more pressing matters that require both hands.
    Dorkface,

    Let me write an article explaining some options and then you can decide what is good, better or best for your situation. Regardless, there are implications and ramifications for each action and you control their acceptance and affect their documentation.

  2. #32
    Join Date
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    Wonderful. I look forward to reading it and appreciate the effort.
    Geek Warlord
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  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,887
    Three points:

    1. What do you say when the dispatcher tells you to secure the gun before patrol arrives?
    2. Where are you physically located when patrol arrives?
    3. What do you say when patrol arrives, and you're at SUL (after that proactive reload)?

    How about:

    1. "Can't do that, ma'am. We're not safe here. I'm not sure how many more are outstanding. I'm a white male, 6'2, 185, gray over gray, wearing a blue bathrobe. I'll be down behind the white Dodge pickup in the driveway when units arrive."
    2. Behind cover. Move if you have to to avoid being flanked, but I'm assuming that signs indicate the fight is over. This is not "High Noon." Get out of the effing open.
    3. "We're not safe yet. There may be more of them." Command voice, please. Develop one if you don't have one.

    And then do everything the cops tell you. Nothing sudden. Be prepared for several to be talking/yelling/screaming at once. And to have a curtain of light preventing you from seeing them or what's happening out there.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

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  4. #34

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Suburb of Des Moines, IA
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    1,170
    To touch on an original point brought up by Brent and Gabe, I believe the fast reholstering is a symptom of trainers obsessed with timers over tactics. These instructors usually do not know how to move dynamically in a reactive gunfight, so they try to compensate for that by increasing the speed of their draw stroke and their shooting. Because they're obsessed with speed, they start to do everything fast, even reholstering. They know deep down that their tactics aren't going to win a gunfight against two armed men, or even against one armed man with his gun already out, so they try to compensate by becoming obsessive about times and improving at gun games. Of course, all they'd have to do is take our 2-day CRG-4 Force on Force class. They'd realize that while a fast draw stroke is nice, it's not the definitive way to deal with a reactive gunfight; dynamic, explosive movement is.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
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    Formerly "ericmt"

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
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    4,103
    Fast out to engage, VERY reluctant to reholster. You brought it out for a reason, you must be reasonably sure that either the reason is gone, or other assets have taken over the situation. Proactive reload at the earliest lull in violence (even if you think your only threat is down). After the smoke of the initial encounter clears, you wont want to reholster if you can avoid it. SUL is a viable option.

    Whether citizen or govt. the rest of the locale might not see you as a "savior" and react accordingly. Keeping your heater in hand (and by inference demonstrating your willingness to make them bleed like the guy on the ground) goes a long way to keeping those folks at the "talky talky" stage instead of escalating to the "doing doing" stage.

    Disarms by responding officers. If you cant just put it down and it requires any manipulation at all (ie holstered on our body) I or One of my team is going to recover it for you (while someone else makes it VERY apparent the consequences of bad decisions). Thats part of securing the scene for responding officers. Afterward we can begin the process of determining what roles the players played.

    I want you to think about that for a minute, given the various still levels in LE, do you want officer gump removing your blaster from your groin when its a glock and he carries a 92f ? Might want to consider how to safely have it "in hand" SUL being an option until ordered to drop it and get on the deck, or setting it down when you see them arrive.

    Youre a victim (in your narrative) , you arent "safe" until the shields get there...... but you dont want them ADing into your dick either.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

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    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
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    10,211
    Speed holstering is gayer than aids and is indicative of someone who has rarely if ever been shot at. But what do I know?
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

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