Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    251

    Default about to begin the journey

    I am about to begin learning how to run an RDS on a handgun (Trijicon RMR06 type 2) and might? eventually use an RDS equipped handgun on duty. I'm a big boy and shoot full size .40 cal handguns just fine. If I do transition to an RDS equipped gun. I'm wondering if I should stick with .40 S&W or go back to 9mmP. (I am partial to the G34/G35 pistols)I live in Wisconsin, and penetration of heavy winter clothing would be an important consideration about four months out of the year.
    "We should always try to do the right thing and the moral thing and the legal thing, but first we should do the SMART thing."
    --John S. Farnam
    Defense Training International

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,472
    I'm not a LEO, nor have I ever shot another human, but I would choose 9mm simply because of capacity, faster follow-up shots and less-expensive ammo. And the smart-ass in me says it doesn't matter how bulky their coat is if you shoot them in the face.
    Waitin' for a squeeze...

    TWOTU Since March 2012

    DPS
    CRG
    AR15/M4 RGF
    HRO-6 CQB
    HRO-7 Team Tactics
    HITS-8 Knife


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,890
    Everything depends on the load. What are you issued? Permitted to carry? How do your sanctioned rounds perform once the hollowpoint is packed with cloth or other barrier material?
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    2, 3, 15. And a wakeup.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,214
    I personally have no room in my inventory for a .40. If I want mass I'll opt for a .45 and if I want capacity and rate of fire I'll opt for the 9mm. That being said you'd be fine with an RMRd .40 if you decide to stick with it.

    The main reason for LEO departments to go to .40 was due to the mass of the round being less likely to ricochet off of auto glass when compared to the 9mm but with the higher capacity over the .45.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post

    The main reason for LEO departments to go to .40 was due to the mass of the round being less likely to ricochet off of auto glass when compared to the 9mm but with the higher capacity over the .45.
    No. The main reason was because the FBI went .40 caliber.

    Once that happened every department in the country got a case of bullet envy and jumped on the bandwagon. Part of the rationale was that the FBI had already done all the testing and compiled the reports and that made the local firearms instructors sales work easier.
    Discipline is just choosing between what you want now and what you want most.


    Gunsite Orange, API -250 Sept. 1978 (Everybody starts somewhere)
    CRG - July 2011, Oct. 2017
    PSP - April 2012
    TMCO - Sept. 2012
    TWOTU since 2011

    Glock Certified Armorer


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,515
    If you like the caliber and shoot it well, stick with it.

    That said, I long ago decided that anything I can do with 40, I can do easier with 9.

    I converted all my 40 stuff to 357 Sig, because it was easy and I do like what 357 has to offer. But more often than not I'm carrying 9.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    I like shooting the .40 in full sized guns like a Sig 226 or Glock 22 or Glock 35. A few years ago one department I work for converted to Glock 22s for patrol (we got in on the State Patrol bid) and a bunch of the kids bought Glock 27s in .40 at the same time as off duty guns. I suggested that maybe they shouldn't do that, because they would find the recoil excessive. But, why listen to the firearms instructor who's been shooting for nearly 40 years? So, they got their G27s and shot them a little and didn't like the snappy recoil and I'm not sure if any of those people still have those guns. I know several replaced them with Glock 43s when those came out . . .

    My off duty guns are a G19 and a G43.

    When somebody gets promoted to Lieutenant or above, many agencies send that person off to management training someplace. The school of Staff and Command at Northwestern University is where most of ours went (because we're in Wisconsin and they often run a program where you go a week a month at some local agency that serves as a host instead of being in residence down in Evanston). Other sources of similar training are the Southern Police Institute in Louisville or the FBI National Academy at Quantico.

    My observation has been that if you take somebody who is sharp and send them to such training they will benefit from it, and if you send somebody who is dull to such training they will remain baffled and ignorant. Education and training benefits the motivated and intelligent much more than it benefits the slackards and the confused.

    In another observation, many times graduates of the FBI National Academy come back all brainwashed by the FBI and for those people anything the Bureau does has a disproportionate influence.

    When we switched from Sig 226s in 9mm in to the Sig DAK in .40 cal back in 2004 it was because most of our guns were 15 years old and Sig made us a hell of a deal on the trade in. When we switched again in 2013 it was because we were able to get in on the State Patrol bid for weapons & holsters and stuff. What the FBI thought about anything was not really a consideration.
    Last edited by Jeff22; 07-19-2018 at 12:37 AM.
    "We should always try to do the right thing and the moral thing and the legal thing, but first we should do the SMART thing."
    --John S. Farnam
    Defense Training International

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    So my Trijicon RMR06 type 2 showed up today. It will go on a slightly used Gen IV Glock 34 9mm (slide milled by OST in 2015 I think)

    Two of the guys I work with just ordered Glock 17 MOS. One is putting an RMR on it and the other is going to use some variety of Vortex optic that he already has.

    I will be interested to see our conclusions six months from now.

    Vortex is a local company and I have three acquaintances who work there and they have great customer service but my (limited) observation is that if you run their pistol optics hard, they will break.

    We've had good luck with the Vortex Strikefire on both individually owned and department issue guns.
    "We should always try to do the right thing and the moral thing and the legal thing, but first we should do the SMART thing."
    --John S. Farnam
    Defense Training International

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,214
    Quote Originally Posted by BKern View Post
    No. The main reason was because the FBI went .40 caliber.

    Once that happened every department in the country got a case of bullet envy and jumped on the bandwagon. Part of the rationale was that the FBI had already done all the testing and compiled the reports and that made the local firearms instructors sales work easier.
    Ya I should have added "I believe" to that statement. I dug around and found that the .40 came about after the 1986 gunfight in FL that left a bunch of dead and injured FBI. They wanted to adopt that 10mm but too many couldn't handle the snappy round and they discovered the .40 which is basically a 10mm short. At the time of adoption caliber actually mattered in terminal ballistics but with new modern ammunition that has become a non issue.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •