Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    7,742
    I don’t think the goal for Suarez is to cater to the average community. If that were the case we would have 2 or every Ruger and kel tech made. What a sad world that would be.....

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,685
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    I don’t think the goal for Suarez is to cater to the average community. If that were the case we would have 2 or every Ruger and kel tech made. What a sad world that would be.....
    Well yeah... but the conversation wasn't about SI, it was "what's the big deal about grip angle?", and people were saying that it makes no difference...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,657
    I don't think there's any such thing as "ideal grip angle".

    There may be an ideal angle for ME, or for YOU...but there is no such thing for everyone because we are all different. Perhaps there's an angle that works easiest for most people, and fair enough, but that is besides the point. Maybe a 1911 points easier for me...but that's only one interesting data point (among a sea of other data points) because I don't actually carry a 1911.

    Some cars are easier to drive than others. And if that's highest priority for a driver, then fine. But the driver is gonna have to relearn every time he gets a new car. Every time he rents a car or has to drive a friends vehicle. Better just to become a good driver.

    That the majority of people don't train properly is not of particular concern to me, from this perspective. If a guy owns a gun and doesn't learn how to handle it well, that's too f***ing bad. I think it's akin to getting married and then not learning the skills of how to make your wife the most happy.

    I think I will turn mine in because I've found another one that I won't have to work as hard to please. (ok maybe that's not the best analogy!) ;)


    I'm not disagreeing strongly. I think some guns ARE easier for certain things. But "pointability" is just one variable among many others. How important that variable is to someone is up to them. But whether it points naturally or not, it's still on the shooter to train. My sympathy for not learning and mastering your weapons is exactly zero. I can understand trying to pick what works easiest for you...but making that choice out of laziness isn't something I will validate.

    I understand we all live busy lives. and not everyone can dedicate the time to practice as some of us have. But my sympathy is still zero. If you carry a gun, you have a responsibility to learn how to use it.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Upcoming classes:
    Zero to Five Feet Gunfighting

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,685
    Brent, I don't think I disagree with anything you said. But Gabe and Greg said "grip angle is irrelevant" and "grip angle is bullshit", and that's what I was responding to.

    I'm not saying anybody here should care about grip angle or other design aspects, but if somebody I care about is going to own a gun and not do serious training, I'd rather that they have a gun that points well for them than a gun that doesn't point well, as I continue to encourage them to take training more seriously.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    10,340
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    I absolutely agree that training matters more than anything else, and training can overcome a lot of initial issues, but grip angle does make a difference in point-ability. No it doesn't, how you present and point is learned. It may be from nerf wars, video games, or airsoft but it's learned behavior.

    I experienced this myself when I was new to guns. While handling stuff at the gun store, the first thing I would do with a gun is grab it and bring it up to the shooting position, then try to find the sights and see how close they were to what I was pointing at on the wall. I consistently had issues with every Glock being off-target, and requiring an adjustment once my eyes found the sights. M&P (and others) was always pretty close to exactly where it should be, often with the sights just showing up in my vision on-target instead of needing to find them with my eyes. again learned behavior

    I've never done it, but this should be pretty easy to test--take a brand-new shooter, and give them a selection of guns to point and shoot at a target without using the sights and compare the results. I have, in basic 1 day classes with very green shooters. That's why I know it's leaned behavior

    Why does it matter? Because the vast majority of gun owners don't train properly, and so if they ever end up in a gun fight they will most likely just take a death grip on the gun, point, and shoot. They will never see the sights, pay attention to mechanics, etc. Fixing a software problem with hardware..... where have I heard that before?

    So you can say it doesn't matter to you, and that's fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter for a lot of other people. Cool inclusive victim statement

    The ideal gun grip/frame design simulates a person raising their hand and pointing it at something. That's where the claims about "ideal grip angle" come from. No the originate in MARKETING nobody is built exactly the same so to say "X" gun has a better angle than "Y" gun isn't supported in fact or physiology
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    I don’t think the goal for Suarez is to cater to the average community. If that were the case we would have 2 or every Ruger and kel tech made. What a sad world that would be.... No we clearly do not.... .
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    Well yeah... but the conversation wasn't about SI, it was "what's the big deal about grip angle?", and people were saying that it makes no difference.. because it doesn't see above.
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    Brent, I don't think I disagree with anything you said. But Gabe and Greg said "grip angle is irrelevant" and "grip angle is bullshit", and that's what I was responding to.

    I'm not saying anybody here should care about grip angle or other design aspects, but if somebody I care about is going to own a gun and not do serious training, I'd rather that they have a gun that points well for them than a gun that doesn't point well, as I continue to encourage them to take training more seriously. Again... See above. It sounds like you're justifying a weapon selection rather than thinking about the point
    You and Edelwise need to start a club. If you can't trust Gabe and my well over 50 years of combined experience why even come here?

    I don't think we need to waste any more bandwidth on this topic.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •