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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    812
    Another good thing about the TNation TRT forum, is if you search you will find a thread that lists optimum numbers for alot of lab work. The huge range of lab numbers is very misleading, as being "in-range" is not what we should be shooting for in any category. Someone compiled a list of various lab values for very healthy/fit men and it's interesting to compare against your own numbers. Also, symptoms can trump numbers so do your research. If you have a laundry list of symptoms, and rule things out, you are left with an educated assumption that there is a problem/deficiency. As I said before, one of the hardest issues, if you live in smaller areas, is finding a knowledgeable doc.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    Went to the Kildeer location for New Vitality MD. Good experience. They do complete blood work - Free T, Total T, Estradiol, Thyroid, etc. They also make sure you're taking HCG along with testosterone so that your body wont stop making it. Something interesting I heard from them - they talked about not chasing a number. In other words, if you're in your 50s and go on the therapy and feel like you're 18, and your new levels are 900 or 950, then you really don't need to obsess about hitting 1,000 or 1,100. They look more at how well you're doing than a number alone, though you should be around 1,000. Should be interesting. Starting next week.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    187
    I was just looking them up this morning. The consult I had here in Europe was a waste of my time, so I'll get a doc in the States. I'll be interested to know how it goes with Kildeer.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    Ok, here's the update. So far, I'm very impressed with this place. Very professional, courteous, and patient-oriented. As far as treatment, my score went from:

    Free T = 4.78 (on a scale of 15 - 25 being normal)
    Total T = 446 (on a scale of 193 - 950 being normal)

    to, after a month on treatment...

    Free T = 17.9 (on a scale of 15 - 25 being normal)
    Total T = 1,166 (on a scale of 193 - 950 being normal)

    Here's the odd thing. After all I'm hearing such raves about it, I expected choirs of angels to be singing around me at this point. I'm not. I'm sleeping quite a bit better, I'm able to get through more intense and more frequent workouts and still function afterwards (for example, went from 50 ab exercises a day to 500 a day), I seem to have more focus at times. But I've still been tired, lacking some level of drive. I don't mean just sex drive, although that seems to go up and down some, maybe as I adjust to the new levels. I mean drive overall. It's not laziness, but it feels similar to laziness, like I have to force myself to do the workouts and what not. Just not feeling that "I'm 20 again!" zip.

    I suspect it's not as intense an experience yet because my adrenals are still healing up and my Vitamin D levels were atrociously low (36), so I'm on 14,000 i.u. a day now. That should be coming up well. Gonna do more lab work at the beginning of December. I'm also thinking that the Free T is the issue, not the Total #. The Free T is still only at the low end of the normal range. I'm wondering if, when it gets closer to 25, it'll make a huge difference. At 17.9, it's only 1/3rd towards the higher end of normal. Has anyone else here noticed that being the case? That the Free T number has to be higher to get that zip?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    Anyone here have any insight on that?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    361
    Anybody here using hcg along with test? What does the hcg cost approx. per month.
    thank you,
    Crush your enemies...

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    187
    I don't really have any insight, but I had a similar experience so far. I got an initial low dose to start out with, and what I've noticed is that I generally feel...better. It's only been two weeks, but I no longer get the mid-afternoon energy crash. My moods feel good, stable, and I'm pleased with the experience so far. My initial expectations were higher, but it's at the beginning of the cycle, and I'm going to see how it shakes out over the next ten weeks, then decide how to proceed.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    Soren wrote:

    Anybody here using hcg along with test? What does the hcg cost approx. per month
    At the place I go, New Vitality MD, it costs $72 for weekly injections. That covers both the testosterone (which is intramuscular) and the HCG (which is subcutaneous). Gotta take the HCG with the testosterone or your body will lose its ability to produce its own testosterone.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    MichaelJames wrote:

    I don't really have any insight, but I had a similar experience so far. I got an initial low dose to start out with, and what I've noticed is that I generally feel...better. It's only been two weeks, but I no longer get the mid-afternoon energy crash. My moods feel good, stable, and I'm pleased with the experience so far. My initial expectations were higher, but it's at the beginning of the cycle, and I'm going to see how it shakes out over the next ten weeks, then decide how to proceed.
    Same here. It's only going on my 6th week. Maybe I'm just not appreciating enough going from "surviving" the day to doing 5 times as much working out and having energy left to spare, but I still feel like I should be feeling more energized, stronger, putting on more muscle with the workouts I do.

    I think it has to do with the Free T number more than anything. And since mine is only at near 18 on a scale of 15-25, that leaves lots of room for increase. I'm assuming the Free T is what's going to have the more pronounced effect, not the overall (Total T) number. After all, in a range of 15-25, a score of 17.9 is barely in the bottom third of the normal range. I think it'll make a much more profound difference when I'm in the top third (23-25). Hoping someone else here can verify that is the case.

    I'm going to up the dose from 120 mg to 140 mg and see how that goes.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Soren View Post
    Anybody here using hcg along with test? What does the hcg cost approx. per month.
    thank you,
    I use HCG, 500iu/week, in two 250iu doses. I buy a 5000iu bottle from my urologist for $65.

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