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  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    8,508
    Gabe, thanks for starting this thread. I keep thinking about this topic as 40 is around the corner.

    Regarding the “bio-identical” ... how does one tell if the clinic uses that versus the “affordable” synthetic BEFORE scheduling an appointment with them? Does anyone have a link explaining the difference? Where does bio-identical T come from?
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  2. #102
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    According to this place by me, pellets are the best bet:

    https://newvitalitymd.com/benefits-pellet-therapy/

    Pellets contain bioidentical hormones derived from plants. Bioidentical hormones are built exactly like those that are found in the human body. Many other hormone replacement therapies are not bioidentical and are made up of synthetics derived from animals, making them less natural. These pellets deliver consistent and healthy levels of hormones, for 3-5 months in women and 4-6 months in men. Pellets completely dissolve inside your body on their own and are re-implanted two to four times a year by the New Vitality MD staff, depending on how rapidly you metabolize the hormones.

    The body absorbs these pellets over the course of several months, delivering a consistent dose of the hormones that your body (is) not producing enough of. Symptoms of hormone imbalance are felt when the body feels a decrease in one or several different hormones. By delivering a steady stream of these hormones, your symptoms are relieved. Pellets avoid the fluctuations of hormone levels seen with other methods of delivery, providing more consistent hormone levels over a longer period.

    When compared to other types of hormone replacement therapy, studies have indicated pellets to be superior for relief of symptoms of menopause and andropause, bone density maintenance, sleep regulation, and improvement in libido, sex drive, sexual performance, and sexual response.

    All emphasis mine. So what have others felt with pellets? Can anyone confirm what this site is saying?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
    Gabe, thanks for starting this thread. I keep thinking about this topic as 40 is around the corner.

    Regarding the “bio-identical” ... how does one tell if the clinic uses that versus the “affordable” synthetic BEFORE scheduling an appointment with them? Does anyone have a link explaining the difference? Where does bio-identical T come from?
    Bio identical is a grey area. All forms of injectable testosterone used by TRT clinics today end up being bio-available but start out attached to an "ester" that is cleaved from the testosterone molecule once in the body. They do this for convenience. If they used true bio-available testosterone(testosterone suspension) it would need to be injected daily, perhaps multiple times daily, and is very inconvenient.

    Gels and pellets perhaps are truely bioavailable(im not familiar with them) but gels are used daily and what ever causes the pellets to dissolve slowly is just another way of getting a slow release of testosterone just like the various estered testosterones.

    The original testosterone replacement in the 50's used an oral derivative of testosterone called methyltestosterone. It was very hard on the liver and gave trt a bad name. It would be more akin to taking dbol daily for months or years. I think the original synthetic vs. Bioavailable argument stemmed from comparisons of estered testosterone to methyltestosterone.

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    Last edited by chipw; 09-23-2018 at 06:17 AM.
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  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    697
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1976 View Post
    According to this place by me, pellets are the best bet:

    https://newvitalitymd.com/benefits-pellet-therapy/

    Pellets contain bioidentical hormones derived from plants. Bioidentical hormones are built exactly like those that are found in the human body. Many other hormone replacement therapies are not bioidentical and are made up of synthetics derived from animals, making them less natural. These pellets deliver consistent and healthy levels of hormones, for 3-5 months in women and 4-6 months in men. Pellets completely dissolve inside your body on their own and are re-implanted two to four times a year by the New Vitality MD staff, depending on how rapidly you metabolize the hormones.

    The body absorbs these pellets over the course of several months, delivering a consistent dose of the hormones that your body (is) not producing enough of. Symptoms of hormone imbalance are felt when the body feels a decrease in one or several different hormones. By delivering a steady stream of these hormones, your symptoms are relieved. Pellets avoid the fluctuations of hormone levels seen with other methods of delivery, providing more consistent hormone levels over a longer period.

    When compared to other types of hormone replacement therapy, studies have indicated pellets to be superior for relief of symptoms of menopause and andropause, bone density maintenance, sleep regulation, and improvement in libido, sex drive, sexual performance, and sexual response.

    All emphasis mine. So what have others felt with pellets? Can anyone confirm what this site is saying?
    Ive never had a pellet but from a lot of reading and a lot of self experimentation, injections of a medium lasting estered-testosterone are the superior method. Testosterone cypionate or enathate injected twice weekly offers the best convenience and ability to tweak levels. Even once weekly is fine.

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  5. #105
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,668
    Having done the pellets, I think I will not redo them. They are not dose-controllable. You get what you get and then go for the ride. Many providers like them because they are a higher profit item. Once my numbers settle (mine was 1200 last month after four months!) I plan on switching to Sub-Q T-injections.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,175
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Having done the pellets, I think I will not redo them. They are not dose-controllable. You get what you get and then go for the ride. Many providers like them because they are a higher profit item. Once my numbers settle (mine was 1200 last month after four months!) I plan on switching to Sub-Q T-injections.
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  7. #107
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    308
    So I called New Vitality and I'm going next week for the blood work to see where my levels are. I know they were at the very low end of normal at the end of last year, and I can't imagine they've gone up! I expect the results to be just a tad below the low end of normal. I was told that you have to drive out to the clinic once a week for the injections (a major freaking hassle!) until your levels stabilize where they should be, then you can do them at home.

    For those who have worked on this, is there any advantage to sub-q over IM injections or vice versa? I decided on the injections over the pellets.

    One thing I am concerned with is that I don't want to have to take AI drugs. I'm not a fan of synthetic drugs and their countless side effects. I'm hoping there are other ways to control that?

    Finally, for those that have done the T therapy, how long did it take to really start to feel energy levels come back, increase muscle mass, etc?
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
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  8. #108
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE New Mexico
    Posts
    1,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1976 View Post
    So I called New Vitality and I'm going next week for the blood work to see where my levels are. I know they were at the very low end of normal at the end of last year, and I can't imagine they've gone up! I expect the results to be just a tad below the low end of normal. I was told that you have to drive out to the clinic once a week for the injections (a major freaking hassle!) until your levels stabilize where they should be, then you can do them at home.

    For those who have worked on this, is there any advantage to sub-q over IM injections or vice versa? I decided on the injections over the pellets.

    One thing I am concerned with is that I don't want to have to take AI drugs. I'm not a fan of synthetic drugs and their countless side effects. I'm hoping there are other ways to control that?

    Finally, for those that have done the T therapy, how long did it take to really start to feel energy levels come back, increase muscle mass, etc?
    Within two weeks consistently for me.
    “Every day the same thing...variety”

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    24
    As I read these posts I think this is me. I'm foggy, don't sleep, well and have trouble leaning out. Granted I probably don't hit the cardio like I should but I lift 5-6 days a week. I've been tested and my number was in the 500's. The Dr's say i'm within normal ranges. What kind of specialist do I see? I feel like i'm spinning my wheel trying to find a dr that understands.

  10. #110
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,668
    You gotta do your research for docs in your area. It is like interviewing an employee as that is what you are doing...he works for you. When most say "normal" they refer to the median for sick, feeble people. We don't want normal, we want "optimal".

    As to the AI, I am not convinced they are needed. I am not a doc, but I have studied this matter and tried both common AI...Arimidex and Letrozole. Letro will crash your Estrogen and you will be miserable. It is like using a strip of C4 to open a rusty can. Arimidex is more common but the dosages must be tuned perfectly. I do not plan to use any AI the next time around and will control E levels by controlling T levels. Bro-science wants to remove E from the equation, but that is not possible, nor desirable.

    In my studies, E thrives mostly in overweight guys. If you are lean and have solid muscle mass with a few visible abs, you probably don't need to worry about E too much. But again...best policy is become an expert, hire a capable optimal medicine doc, and then see for yourself.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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