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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,021
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I do not consider paintball competitions to be training, although I do think we can consider them as a form of practice for very specific skills, such as moving off-line in this case. When we draw conclusions from the outcome of this practice, we have to think very carefully to avoid learning the wrong lesson.

    Competition is not the same as real life and the only proof you will ever personally have is if you avoid getting shot for real. But competition can certainly be good practice for these situations. In this case it was clearly a successful outcome and I think a valid test against an opponent ready but not yet willing to shoot. That is a valid scenario in my opinion.

    Hopefully you get the opportunity to validate a scenario where the opponent is ready and willing to shoot.
    Well said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jamison View Post
    Brent, one of the biggest lessons that I learned from paintball was situational awareness and not getting tunnel vision.

    I honestly think that is paintball's biggest training value. Nothing like an instant sightly painful reminder to not target fixate.
    I think there are other learning points as well. I learned some of the following from playing paintball:

    - the importance of movement, timing, aggression, and 3-5 second rushes
    - how effective point shooting can be
    - the importance of learning to shoot left and right handed
    - shooting and moving
    - recovering from unexpected falls, trips, etc, with marker in hand
    - the importance of angles as they relate to the use of cover, movement, and gaining advantage over opponent
    - proper use of cover (crowding, using all of the cover)
    - ammunition management (at 16 years old I decided to have ammo on left and right sides of body and established an 'SOP' to feed from center and always (1) fill hopper then (2) have fullest pods in center. Administrative reloading / not in shootout was done from pods furthest from center)
    - the use of terrain and micro-terrain for cover and concealment
    - the importance of fitness when participating in short but intense activities like this: 20-30 minutes of repeated squats, sprints, low crawls, etc...takes fitness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisp View Post
    I remember reading cold zero by Christopher whitcomb and when he was going through his initial FBI Special agent training in 1987, he mentioned they used paintball for tactical training. Albeit i realistic scenarios like felony car stops.
    I think it is very, very important to draw a distinction between *using paintball markers to train* and *playing paintball*. They are not the same, at all.

    *Playing paintball* at a recreational field for a few hours on a weekend is not training. It is not simulation. But it can yield some learning points, as with any other - if I may use the word - "martial" sport or activity, there is some crossover between skills and shooting / fighting.

    *using paintball markers to train* can also yield some learning points, but would have drawbacks too. Most of these don't exist with those simunition tools Gabe sells and paintball (or airsoft) is obsolete, except that some of paintball's disadvantages in training could be used as advantages.

    Paintball guns generally lack sights. This is a disadvantage in training as it (along with most other aspects of paintball gun ergonomics) is far different from actual weapons, but could also force trainees to learn point shooting.

    Paintball guns also generally feed from a gravity or force-fed hopper rather than a magazine. This is a disadvantage because obviously real firearms don't, and in real fights you don't have 200 rounds on tap. But then again, it allows trainees to focus on training and extracts magazine / ammunition management from the training equation to focus on other aspects of the training.

    Magazine fed paintball guns (increasingly popular) can often simulate the ergonomics of actual firearms, but usually don't simulate the function (slide, magazine release, so forth). The disadvantage there is obvious.

    ---

    At any rate, my point here was just to highlight a learning moment I had while playing a game of rec ball. If any of you haven't played, go out one weekend. It's a lot of fun if you don't take yourself too seriously as many people unfortunately do.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC for refit
    Posts
    1,619
    A decade and some change ago when I was still actively paratroop'n my son decided he wanted to us to get into paintball so we did.

    Several hundred dollars later we were rocking some pretty cool gear and hit the field.

    My son was like 11 or twelve , and so were the most of our squad that was matched and deemed worthy opponents for a semi pro team en route to a playoff game in Raleigh,NC.
    My self and another guy were the two oldest guys on the squad and he was an Army reservist.

    When we got to our start point in the woods I laid it down for the lads and said " this sucks they are using us as cannon fodder, so all you guys lay by the trees here", spreading them into a pretty good defensive line and assigning even and odd numbers. When you hear the shooting start odds fire 3 or 4 rounds and evens fire next and rotate."

    "Once you have good targets only shoot the guys moving toward you, we will be moving horizontal and popping up from the creek we crossed coming in".

    That young specialist and I work that whole line of " tier 2 " players shooting them from from good cover and concealment.

    That being said tactics and audacity can win fights, and training trumps gaming.

    Get to an SI class and that gets you a better chance of survival should you need to apply a ballistic effect on a bad guy in the real world.

    Yes "Movement is life and hits there win the fight"... get there.

    v/r

    JD
    Last edited by JD Lester; 06-12-2018 at 07:08 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,021
    Quote Originally Posted by JD Lester View Post
    A decade and some change ago when I was still actively paratroop'n my son decided he wanted to us to get into paintball so we did.

    Several hundred dollars later we were rocking some pretty cool gear and hit the field.

    My son was like 11 or twelve , and so were the most of our squad that was matched and deemed worthy opponents for a semi pro team en route to a playoff game in Raleigh,NC.
    My self and another guy were the two oldest guys on the squad and he was an Army reservist.

    When we got to our start point in the woods I laid it down for the lads and said " this sucks they are using us as cannon fodder, so all you guys lay by the trees here", spreading them into a pretty good defensive line and assigning even and odd numbers. When you hear the shooting start odds fire 3 or 4 rounds and evens fire next and rotate."

    "Once you have good targets only shoot the guys moving toward you, we will be moving horizontal and popping up from the creek we crossed coming in".

    That young specialist and I work that whole line of " tier 2 " players shooting them from from good cover and concealment.

    That being said tactics and audacity can win fights, and training trumps gaming.

    Get to an SI class and that gets you a better chance of survival should you need to apply a ballistic effect on a bad guy in the real world.

    Yes "Movement is life and hits there win the fight"... get there.

    v/r

    JD
    Sounds like a fun experience with the boy.

    'training trumps gaming'.

    Love it. Should be a t shirt.

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