Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 45
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    18
    Thank you, Ghost. Could my high testosterone from the cream be pushing my cholesterol levels up?

    Yes, it was a fasted blood draw. I have been eating mostly paleo, but I typically eat alot of fruit. I still drink whole milk most days, plus some wheat bread a few times a week with peanut butter and honey.

    It seems I need to give up my milk and bread, plus all the fruit?

    My doctor recommended vitamin D at 5000 iu, twice a day. I will cut back.

    Also, my doctor’s office staff said it didn’t matter if I applied my cream before the blood draw. I figured she might be mistaken, but she said the doctor told her so. Lol

    I will check into Cholesterol Hoax. Thanks again

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    48,277
    So Test does affect HDL, but nothing that cant be controlled or fixed. I agree to look at diet first. I wonder if the shots might be a better option however. Agree that for some guys the creams are better...but the shots are easier to titrate I think.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    18
    Thank you, Gabe. I just can not tolerate a shot every week. It is my weakness, yes.

    I had already stopped eating refined carbs and added sugars. But I continued taking some milk daily, plus cheese, and lots of fruit. I will make an adjustment here right away.

    You say high testosterone can affect Hdl. Does it lower Hdl? Perhaps I should lower my daily cream dose.

    Thank you
    Last edited by peanutlover; 03-10-2021 at 08:24 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,440
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    "Relying on LDL-C alone can be misleading. For example, people with obesity, metabolic syndrome or diabetic lipid disorders often have raised TG, low HDL-C and normal or close to normal LDL-C. These individuals produce very low-density lipoproteins (VLDL) and intermediate density lipoproteins (IDL) which may increase the risk of atherosclerosis.


    Many studies have found that the triglyceride/HDL cholesterol ratio (TG/HDL-C ratio) correlates strongly with the incidence and extent of coronary artery disease. This relationship is true both for men and women."

    LINK TO THE ARTICLE

    That article is almost 7 years old, and was out of date ACCORDING TO MEDICAL SCIENCE the day it was written.

    As Dr. Peter Attia says "All facts have a half life".

    The TL;DR on this is "It's not the cholesterol, it's the protein."

    In the 50s and 60s the best we could do was look at total cholesterol, and there was a small, but strong signal that said "Total Cholesterol is correlated with heart disease".

    At the time we weren't sure how it worked, but it was clear that cholesterol was a weak proxy for something that caused heart disease--sort of how in the 1990s a blue devils jersey was a weak proxy for drug dealers.

    As science has drilled into this, and learned, and refined, and learned we got better and better proxies.

    My understanding (at best a layman) is that current research (stuff published in real medical journals in the last 3-5 years) STRONGLY suggests both the mechanism for most atherosclerosis, and it's "LDP-P", not LDL-C.

    Cholesterol is a fat, and fats don't mix with water. Your blood is water. So to get fats moving around the system they need to bind to proteins and you have 5 different kinds of proteins that do this including our old buddies HDL and LDL. HDL proteins have a relatively high "protein to cholesterol" ratio. There are 80 to 100 proteins per "particle" and can carry a couple hundred fat molecules. Because this ratio is fairly close an HDL-C count can give you a pretty accurate count of HDL-P. Also because HDL-P carries excess lipids back to the liver (sort of, usually) the liver can "clear" extra/empty HDL particles pretty fast (not HDL-C, the HDL-P).

    LDP is called "Low Density" because while it's about the same size as an HDL particle (80 to 100 protiens), it can carry 3000 to 6000 fat molecules.

    This means that any measurement of LDL-C is a *POOR* proxy for LDL P count. Consider the case where you have (making up numbers here) 600,000 fat molecules in a unit of blood from LDL. Is that 100 particles? Or is it 200? That's a big difference.

    So for the longest time we couldn't measure LDL-P directly, but now we can.

    But we're not done yet, we're moving to the next layer.

    Atherosclerosis seems to develop when LDL proteins "invade" the endothelium, the cells lining the walls of blood vessels (arteries down to venules), triggering a repair response which is the "calcification". Given what I've read and heard, I'm not sure whether this is "whole" LDL-Protein particles, or bits of "remnants".

    Now part of this is that LDL particles (stripped of cholesterol) can hang in teh blood for a while, giving them a better chance of finding a lesion in the endothelium and causing problems. This leads to 3 different approaches for "fixing" the problem.

    Even the kinds of proteins that make up the LDL seems to matter. For example there's three variants of the ApoE protein, and you get one from each parent. If you have two of one variant, you have a MUCH higher chance of developing atherosclerosis than if you have another kind, though exactly how that breaks down depends on who you're listening to.

    Note that for any large, heterogeneous population group diet has limited effect on LDL-P production, BUT FOR SOME PEOPLE IT HAS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.

    The biggest indicator of if you're going to have problems is your parents and grandparents. If they died of heart disease, cancer or "early onset" Alzheimer in their 40s, 50s or 60s, you got problems regardless of what your LDL is. It's these people that Statins work the best for (and I know that's an unpopular opinion around here). If they lived into their 90s you should probably eat a decent diet, get plenty of sleep and exercise because you're going to be here a while and you'll want to be

    Statins are one of the most studied drugs out there at this point and the risk/benefit ratio is *so* overwhelmingly in favor of them that IF you're in a high risk group (basically family history of heart diesease, in the APoE E4/E4 group) you're basically committing suicide by not taking them. Then again, if most of your ancestors lived into their 90s, it's probably not going to help.

    There's four interventions I know of that will reduce high levels of LDL-P (again, the *cholesterol* is almost irrelevant): Statins, PSK-9 inhibitors, Zetia, and dietary. Statins work by blocking the tool chain that produces cholesterol in the body, and there's a bunch of different version at different does levels. PSK9 inhibitors are pretty new, and basically work by clearing LDL-P from the blood and recycling them, hopefully before they cause a problem. Zetia reduces cholesterol by preventing some cholesterol from getting from the intestine to the liver (again, in a heterogeneous population there's no correlation between dietary cholesterol and LDL-P, but *some* people are unlucky). And there are dietary interventions. High fiber diets seem to possibly work in some clearing fats from the bile, which prevents the liver from "reimporting" them into the body (this is similar to how Zetia works, but at a different point in the intestines). For some people reducing saturated fats will reduce cholesterol. For some it has no impact. Monosaturated fats seem to have limited to no impact. Reducing refined sugars *seems* to have an impact because having lots of sugars tends to cause the body to convert the sugar to fat, and to push fats out of the liver by producing LDLs to transport them (If I understood it right).

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    505
    Peanutlover,

    I'd cut back for sure on the bread and fruit. As far as the milk goes, unless it's raw from an organic farm and from grass fed cows (type A2), it's garbage. I wouldn't drink it. Even the organic stuff at Whole Foods is pasteurized, homogenized shit. I don't even consider it "food". I'd argue with the doctor about the issue of the cream or gel applied right before blood work. The jury is out on testosterone's effect on cholesterol. I'd say it's more a diet issue in any case. I noticed the lab work did not show your hematocrit level. That's important to know, because if it's too high, you're prone to blood clots, which is not a good thing. It really shouldn't be going over 50.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    18
    Ghost, my hematocrit is 51. In November it was 52. Lab sheet says that is within normal range.

    The milk is from grass-fed cows, pasteurized but not homogenized (blended.) It has the cream on top ��

    Thank you

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    505
    BillyOblivion, I was with you most of the way, great info, but we definitely will be disagreeing about statins. They're no good. Studies show that statins do not lower the overall mortality rate. Statins work by shutting off the enzymes that create cholesterol in the body, which we need to form hormones, repair muscles, form cell walls, etc. That enzyme that creates cholesterol is also the enzyme that creates Co-enzyme Q-10 or Co-Q10. This is a vital nutrient found in every cell in the body, and it powers the mitochondria. In fact, that's why its chemical name is ubiquinol, from the word "ubiquitous", which means found everywhere. So when you deplete your Co-Q10, it makes the heart work harder because the heart uses far, far more Co-Q10 than any other muscle or cell in the body. People on statins have higher risk of heart attacks because of this. Statins also reduce your Vitamin K levels, which can lead to calcification of the heart. Doctors who know their stuff and actually read the research are very much against statins. People also experience muscle aches and pains because they can't repair muscle tissue due to the drug shutting off enzyme production. Women taking statins are more prone to depression and other mental illnesses due to the suppressive effects of low cholesterol on hormones while taking statins. People experience less energy and more fatigue while on statins. I have yet to meet the person whose health got better after taking statins. Like I said, lecithin, Kyolic garlic, niacin and a clean diet will handle virtually every case of high cholesterol and without the dangerous side effects of statins.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    505
    Peanutlover wrote:
    Ghost, my hematocrit is 51. In November it was 52. Lab sheet says that is within normal range.The milk is from grass-fed cows, pasteurized but not homogenized (blended.) It has the cream on top
    At this point, I'd strongly suggest you go to a lab and tell them you need a therapeutic blood draw for high hematocrit. It's going up, and 50 is really the cut off where you want to start lowering it. It's not a big risk or anything now, but why take chances? It has to come down. If the milk is pasteurized, it's garbage regardless of the rest. When you pasteurize milk, you kill off all the beneficial probiotics and enzymes. You damage the calcium and it changes into a form much harder to assimilate. You destroy Wulzen factor, a chemical in milk that prevents calcium from building up in the arteries and helps push it into the bones. You damage or destroy the vitamins (which is why they have to "fortify" milk with vitamin D, often using D2 - an inferior form - instead of D3). Once it's pasteurized, it's garbage. It's worse once they homogenize it because that breaks down the fat molecules so small that they can bypass the blood brain barrier and go where they're not supposed to go. We're finding high levels of milk fat in many dementia and Alzheimer's patients. Finally, unless it's from a Guernsey or (most) Jersey or Asian or African cows - the brown ones - it's not Type A2. Black and white cows (mainly Holsteins) are what all (as far as I have found so far) manufacturers (Organic Valley, Horizon, etc) use. The problem is that Holsteins produce Type A1 milk, which, unlike Type A2 milk, is pro-inflammatory. This is because a few thousand years ago the black and white cows underwent a genetic mutation. They used to have an amino acid called proline, and at the end of that amino acid was something called BCM-7 or beta-caseomorphin 7. It was bound tightly to the proline and was not a problem. However, after the mutation, the cows changed that proline to histidine, which allows the BCM-7 to break off easily and travel throughout the blood stream. BCM-7 is highly inflammatory and causes inflammation in the cardiovascular system and the mucus membranes. This is one reason why a lot of people think they're "lactose intolerant". I know lots of people (myself included) who, if we drink a glass or two of store-bought, pasteurized, homogenized, type A1 milk, we end up feeling sick, loaded with mucus and diarrhea. But switch to raw, type A2 milk and no problem! I've even done 30 day milk fasts eating nothing but milk and water without a problem. I'd probably die trying that with A1 milk! Yikes!So that's the rule for milk, pretty much. Type A2 cows, organic, grass fed and raw (not pasteurized or homogenized). Anything else - garbage.
    "Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."
    - Toshitsugo Takamatsu

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    3,440
    Understand that there's a metric s*t tonne of medical articles published every year, and it is *literally* impossible for most specialists to both keep up to date AND have a profitable clinical practice.

    It's even harder for a GP or a family doctor. Much of what is "known" today is wrong, a partial picture, a function of a distorted perspective, or is wishful thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by jesselp View Post
    OK, understanding that you all are not doctors (or maybe some of you are?) but that I need to make my own decisions about my health, what would you do with these results?

    Total Cholesterol: 281 mg/dLIrrelevant
    HDL Cholesterol: 54 mg/dL Irrelevant
    Cholesterol / HDL Ratio: 5.2 Irrelevant
    LDL, Calculated: 205 mg/dL
    Triglycerides: 96 mg/dL Irrelevant
    Non-HDL Cholesterol: 227 mg/dLIrrelevant
    Doctor made it sound like I had major risk factors for a cardiac event based on these labs and wants me on 10mg/day of Crestor (statin) and 200mg of CoQ10.
    Age is 45, high blood pressure is managed to healthy range. Blood sugar and A1C are good. Have not exercised in eight weeks due to recurring gout flares, which are now being managed with allopurinol.
    What would you do?
    You're 45. If you can ask your grandparents what THEIR parents died of, I wouldn't worry about the answer. If you can't ask them because they died from Dementia or Coronary disease at young ages, I would (and given the results of my next blood tests I may be going down this road myself since I have no idea who my genetic parents are):
    1. Request an LDL-P & Genetic testing.
    2. Do more "zone two" cardio.
    3. 24 hour fast once a week. 48 hour fast once a month. Go for a 72 hour fast every quarter (and not take time off for cold weather like I do now)
    4. Dietary changes. Further reduce "processed" foods, and go on a low carb diet (low, but not Keto). Increase dietary fiber (Oat bran and Psyllium husk).
    5. Calcium score test.
    6. Zetia
    7. Start with the lowest does of the best tolerated statin on the market.


    From Jocko Willink: When you don't know what to do, take a small step and re-evaluate.

    Nothing you can do will make dramatic changes in your health now. Everything you will be doing will be for the long term. Not a sprint. Not even a marathon. Think "Ultra Running" here.

    You have time to experiment.

    Ask for an LDL-P test, and *maybe* a genetic test for your APoE variants. This will give you more information.

    Those next three are easy, cheap, and have dramatic benefits OTHER than cholesterol. I'd start with those three and run that "experiment" for 60 days and retest.

    If it moved the needle in the right direction (more than statistical error), I'd go another 60s days and see if that put me in a better place. If so I'd go 90 days, see if it's still moving the right direction and if I'm "good", then 180s days, then every year. Frankly if you're in good shape otherwise 205 isn't *that* bad, and knocking 10 percent off that should put you in a good place.

    If it didn't move the needle--especially if the LDL-P test or the genetic tests came back "bad", I'd ask for a MRI to determine a Calcium Score (this looks at existing calcification of the blood vessels). If it's low, keep one for a year or two, then get another score to compare. If it's high, next item on the list.

    I'd start with Zetia because it *doesn't* interfere with endogenous cholesterol production, but depending on your genetics that may not matter.

    Lastly I'd get a cognitive evaluation (including IQ test), then I'd start taking the lowest dose of the statin with the least reported side effects. Note that almost every cell in the body has the ability to generate cholesterol, and statins ONLY prevent the liver from producing cholesterol, so for most people there are few to no side effects.

    Frankly I'd be more worried about the gout. I'd really work the requisite diet modifications and other things to get that s*t fixed.

    It doesn't matter how long you live if you're in constant pain.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    18
    Thank you, Billy. That was a very informative analysis. I will try to absorb all that is useful to my situation.

    However, it was the OP’s stats from 3 years ago that you analyzed.

    But, it does seem that you have thoroughly researched this issue, and I appreciate the time you took to try and help me.

    Thank you

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •