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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    There are advantages to an SMG sized weapon that fires 9mm over a larger weapon that fires 5.56. Just as there are advantages over a handgun. The SMG is not a main battlefield weapon, but in its niche it will perform better than a rifle.
    Concur, in many situations (read: confined spaces), I can make a compact 5.56 work but it involves a lot of experience and techniques that aren't required with an SMG style/sized platform. Additionally in those spaces while a PDW will work in some situations I may desire a platform that is a little more substantial even if in the same caliber. Not to mention the varying benefits of different cartridges/calibers depending on the environment.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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  2. #22
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    I think armor crews would prefer a sub gun also due to their enclosed environment and other obvious factors. No larger than the M3a1 preferably smaller, firing something like the Bofors or Bofers + ammo would be nice. I feel the MAC 9/10 is a bit too small for all but the best and cyclic rate is far too high for most. 450 rpm or slower is about right, and even that is too high for second and third echelon soldiers to use efficiently.

    While I detest them in theory and practice, a three round burst control trigger would be needed for rear echelon unmotivated/poorly trained users. Motivated front line troops with proper training should not need such an impediment. Suarez training could have practically any soldier efficiently employing a weapon of this type, but we all know that is unlikely to happen.

    jim
    2 Samuel 22; Psalm 139:21-22

  3. #23
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    I don't think these SMGs are going to be for rear echelon troops.
    From what I've read it's going to be a small number for rather well trained users in specialized applications.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold View Post
    I don't think these SMGs are going to be for rear echelon troops.
    From what I've read it's going to be a small number for rather well trained users in specialized applications.
    It's possible that those in the rear may see a wider distribution as well due to their function not requiring a carbine but still, in the case of emergency, need an easily portable system that allows them to perform their function while easily carrying it with them. The nature of being in the rear where they are a passive support to active security personnel and a limited need for ballistic range could lead to the assignment of a smaller weapon system.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  5. #25
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    I'm not saying it wouldn't make sense - just that the $ number floating around (ca. 450 K) suggests a rather small batch of guns, nowhere near enough to arm significant numbers of REMFs.


    Issuing PDWs in large quantities for actual PDW purposes instead of being a small, lightweight assaulter's weapon or a highly concealable gun for the cool HSLD dudes...now that would be a big step (forward/backward/sideways? ;) ).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold View Post
    I'm not saying it wouldn't make sense - just that the $ number floating around (ca. 450 K) suggests a rather small batch of guns, nowhere near enough to arm significant numbers of REMFs.


    Issuing PDWs in large quantities for actual PDW purposes instead of being a small, lightweight assaulter's weapon or a highly concealable gun for the cool HSLD dudes...now that would be a big step (forward/backward/sideways? ;) ).
    ya it's difficult to interject logic into a bureaucratic process.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  7. #27
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    One more thought:
    We've seen PDWs in rear echelon troops make the jump to crack frontline troops because the latter saw a use for them (best example: the M1 Carbine in WW2).

    We've also seen planned PDWs not get to the rear echelon guys in the first place (because of money constraints etc.) and only be bought in rather small numbers for specialised units - as happened with the P90 and the MP7.


    When PDWs are now explicitly procured for those specialised units/applications, I don't see a big chance for a trickle down-effect to the REMFs.
    They don't have a lobby like the cool guys do and as there is an awful lot of them, anything you plan to buy for them means a lot of money - as opposed to the small crack units who get a lot of their stuff mainly because the procurement numbers mean it's all small change in the big picture.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    ya it's difficult to interject logic into a bureaucratic process.
    Logic...... rarely the engine that propels bureaucracy. ;)
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    There are advantages to an SMG sized weapon that fires 9mm over a larger weapon that fires 5.56. Just as there are advantages over a handgun. The SMG is not a main battlefield weapon, but in its niche it will perform better than a rifle.
    EXACTLY Hahahaha I seem to remember this same argument about 10 years ago.

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