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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,739
    FOR THE SEARCH-CHALLENGED AND SURF-LAZY


    PICK UP THE TERRORIST RIFLE OR USE YOUR HANDGUN?

    Thursday, June 14, 2018



    The old saying, "A picture is worth 1000 words" was as true the day the old sage spoke it in the Chinese temple as it is today. So take a moment and look at all these images. They are a collection of Islamic Terrorists in the process of murdering innocents in futherance of their political, ideological and religious aims. We did not have readily available images of Mateen or Farooq, but if we did, they would look very much like these guys. What are they armed with?

    Rifles.

    And look at the last image. That belongs to the CT Operators who eliminated one of the terrorists in Paris. Look at the shield they are using. Do you the impacts on the Bataclan Shield? What made those and why were they deploying a shield of that nature?

    The bad guys were armed with rifles.

    Now, I would like you to set aside ideas about fairness, the American way of things, and the way things ought to be and look for a moment with me at reality...they way things really are, and the way people really are.
    Lets look at the LE Perspective:

    You are a SWAT operator running to locate an active shooter. You have heard shots and the information you got was a man yelling in Arabic and shooting at people with a rifle. All the briefings and training on these events has involved guys like this, and knowing what you know about rifles, you plan to take no chances. You turn the corner and see a man holding a rifle, pointed in on prostrate body.

    Having worked LE in one of the busiest regions in the nation, and SWAT at that, I can predict with 95% certainty that the guy with the rifle is going to get shot, and very likely killed, by the police. Not a 100% guarantee, but an almost 100% under the situations described.

    Not fair you say? Well, rain is also wet and fire is also hot. Feel free to complain about it, but that will not change the nature of rain, or fire.

    Nor what a human being tasked with hunting down a rifle armed killer - with few other physical descriptors if any - that he has not yet set eyes on and who he knows is in the process of killing everyone. The description he gets on the fly will not be enough to not shoot the good guy that decides to pick up the bad guy's rifle. Even if it is a great description, what the SWAT operator will focus on is "RIFLE".

    So lets consider the following -

    First let us assume correctly that those reading this are always carrying a pistol, regardless of the sign saying they "should not". And likely, carrying for just such an event. As well, we are not the sort of people to "duck and cover" waiting for the police as history shows that the LE response may easily be delayed from various factors.

    Sure there are mitigating factors such as you are unarmed, such as in an airport or some other place where it was physically impossible to "ignore the sign", and you managed to attack, neutralize and disarm the terrorist with your bare hands...or with a knife - and now you are either unarmed...or armed with his rifle. I get it, but understand that those facts will not be relayed to the responders and you run a very high risk of being misidentified.

    Next, lets consider that it is not an impossible task to bring down one or more of these people with handgun work, if it is done correctly and the shooter has an adequate level of skill. (To the incessant critics that will say that the "average guy" doesn't have that capability, I ask them to come up with a better solution that does not involve hiding under a desk in tears...in short if your marksmanship sucks, put down the beer and remote and change that).

    Once the terrorist is down, and has been shot in the face with at least a half magazine after he is down, unless there are mitigating circumstances dictating doing otherwise, I suggest leaving his rifle where it lays, lest you be confused for one of his compatriots.

    Again, it looks like the modern, properly organized handgun is the ticket for modern unplanned counter terrorism.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,140
    Here's how it will go down for you, and for me when I'm off duty: You'll hear repetitive, muffled sounds from no particular direction. Odds are you won't recognize it, depending on distance from ground zero. The real cue will be people running, some head down in a sprint, some actually turning and looking back as if they were in a Grade B monster movie. That's when you start moving toward the sounds. You'll grab someone and yell in his face and you'll be told, "He's shooting people! He's got a gun!" and you may get the info that it's "an assault rifle!"
    This info will be relayed to the first responder(s) in garbled form.
    This is not the time to be wielding a rifle. If I'm off-duty and moving up, I'll shoot you. If I'm on duty, likely alone, and moving up, I'll shoot you. Unless I know you, trust you and am convinced you haven't gone over to the Dark Side. And how much time will I have to decide?

    Have a serious handgun. Learn how to shoot it well, including at distance. And keep it SUL unless targets are in sight and you are ready to engage.
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 19. And a wakeup.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    PG County, MD
    Posts
    813
    AK knowledge is why and how I showed up. Moving past that is why I stayed.

    I have ak's (including a Fuller) for sale.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    194
    Last thing I bought was a flash hider for the AK. Been about 3 years ago and cost me about $20. Still have two. Haven't shot them in years.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Eastern NC
    Posts
    295
    I still have 4 AK's - all Saigas that I converted (back) to their correct configuration & fitted with a TWS Dogleg, red dot or LPV & Magpul MOE AK stock - 1 in .308, 1 in 5.56 & 2 in 7.62x39. Just as with my AR's & my 556R, I practice with them regularly. Further, in most any reasonable defensive situation, the 'x39' round is proven stopper (with the 150 gr. TulaAmmo soft points that are the only thing I run anymore, at 75-100m, the round is pretty much the Hammer of Thor on the 125 lb. swamp deer that inhabit these parts). And about the only generally available semiauto rifle out there suitable for defensive use is the AK. (True, there is the Ruger Mini-30, the now-defunct SIG 556-series - a rifle I wold love to love if SIG hadn't screwed everyone who bought one when they dumped the whole series - as well as offerings like the VZ-58, but none with the wide support of the AK.)

    So, I guess the short answer for me is: The AK remains a completely viable fighting tool which will have a place right beside the AR's in my 'tool box' for the foreseeable future. She is a simple, rather unrefined, but brutally efficient fighting tool.

    As always: YMMV!
    Old SF

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,852
    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF MJT View Post
    I still have 4 AK's - all Saigas that I converted (back) to their correct configuration & fitted with a TWS Dogleg, red dot or LPV & Magpul MOE AK stock - 1 in .308, 1 in 5.56 & 2 in 7.62x39. Just as with my AR's & my 556R, I practice with them regularly. Further, in most any reasonable defensive situation, the 'x39' round is proven stopper (with the 150 gr. TulaAmmo soft points that are the only thing I run anymore, at 75-100m, the round is pretty much the Hammer of Thor on the 125 lb. swamp deer that inhabit these parts). And about the only generally available semiauto rifle out there suitable for defensive use is the AK. (True, there is the Ruger Mini-30, the now-defunct SIG 556-series - a rifle I wold love to love if SIG hadn't screwed everyone who bought one when they dumped the whole series - as well as offerings like the VZ-58, but none with the wide support of the AK.)

    So, I guess the short answer for me is: The AK remains a completely viable fighting tool which will have a place right beside the AR's in my 'tool box' for the foreseeable future. She is a simple, rather unrefined, but brutally efficient fighting tool.

    As always: YMMV!
    Old SF
    It is a viable tool if you have a decently made one, that most often means a receiver made overseas. I still go for the 7.62x39 cartridge, but am using the AR system for it for new rifles. I have not thrown away my AKs made on combloc machinery either, but would not buy most of the made in america offerings.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  7. #37
    Krebs Custom UFM Keymod rail.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,852
    I wonder if this is well made. I am not in the market for an AK, but for pistols the AK has the advantage of being to use a folding stock making it more compact than most ARs.

    Received an ad for this: IWI (Israel Weapon Industries) Galil ACE 7.62x39 8.3" 30rd Semi-Auto Pistol w/ Side-Folding Stabilizing Brace

    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    207
    I got to play with one for a while.I really liked the longer sight radius ,the safety and the ease of mounting a red dot.But it's an AK..an 1800.00 AK.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,852
    Quote Originally Posted by krav51 View Post
    I got to play with one for a while.I really liked the longer sight radius ,the safety and the ease of mounting a red dot.But it's an AK..an 1800.00 AK.
    Quality does usually cost.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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