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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wild Wonderful WV!!
    Posts
    1,276
    Iíve been running a small mountain retreat for retired police 870ís for several years!

    The last one to join served in the Chicago area and had a small rehabilitation to prepare for its new life in the mountains!

    Nostalgia or not they are a comfort in a place that the response time is often measured in hours!

    SD
    Si vis pacem, para bellum!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I was there when the 12 ga began its exodus. It was what I always took when things were likely to get violent. I had rifles and used them for their application...same for MP5s...but for killing...the 12 ga was the ticket.

    I used to run qualifications a few times a year and of the 250-300 officers, few were comfortable with it due to either diminutive size (no more height standards after I think 1994), feeble physical state(no more physical quals after 1993 I think). So Officer Four-foot Sally couldn't handle it, and neither could Harry Hundred-Pounds. Nor could some of the admin officers who polished the leather seats for eight hours a day.

    The North Hollywood deal scared everyone. I missed it narrowly. I was supposed to go pick up 2000 rounds of 40 S&W at B&B Guns that day but my ammo had not yet arrived so I didn't go. That the event could have been handled by pistol marksmanship was never discussed (there were officers within 15 yards of these guys, unseen that could have taken head shots). The one robber who allegedly shot himself was actually shot in the side of the head by an advancing officer with his Beretta 92. The other that died from positional asphyxia was shot in the legs with skipped rounds from LAPD SWAT rifles (something that either a shotgun or a rifle could have done). So rifles had really no bearing on the event. LAPD of course promptly issued 45s and put a rifle in some of the SGT cars.

    The genie now out of the bottle was rifles for the police. And cops are woeful 'grass is greener" types. Give them 45s and they want 9s. Give them shotguns and they want rifles. Give them BMWs and they want Electra-Glides back. Perpetual complainers. And rifles were new. AND...for the besieged range staff and the admin that kept sending them people unsuited for urban combat, both Officer Four-foot and Officer Hundred-Pounds could wield those 7 pound low recoil M4s well enough at 25 yards. The directives from above with the thunderous voice of administrative privilege and noblesse oblige was simple - get rid of those loud, antiquated and indiscriminate weapons my elves and my girls cannot use and let them all have rifles.

    So it was written...so it was done.
    Not LE, but have often wondered if a 870 and a box of slugs would not have stopped the two bank robbers even with their armor?

    One shot each in head with one once slug at 1600fps and event over!!
    Not living in fear, just ready!!!



  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    388
    If you cannot stand 12 ga recoil how are you going to be able to deal with a fight ???

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    24
    The dept I work for is looking to get rid of the 870's. I have mixed feelings about it. I truly love the 870, but teaching people who are intimidated by it has become a chore. For my sanity I won't miss teaching it but for actual use on the street I will.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    44,770
    Quote Originally Posted by suzukiltd View Post
    The dept I work for is looking to get rid of the 870's. I have mixed feelings about it. I truly love the 870, but teaching people who are intimidated by it has become a chore. For my sanity I won't miss teaching it but for actual use on the street I will.
    And see...that is the issue. They don't care about street efficiency. They only care about checking off the boxes of bullshit. Deep in their craven pusilanimous hearts, some of these decision makers would prefer the platform of a dead officer's body to ask for more diversity training and more equality in hiring, than to explain to the media why somebody like me blew Mookie-Dog's face right off from under his crooked Raider's hat.

    I miss the hunt everyday...but I surely do not miss the buuullshit in my face nor the daggers in my back.
    A
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    625
    Fortunately for me, we have both. We are issued AR's and 870's. We determine which one we need at any specific incident.

    Nothing clears and unruly mob like that initial racking of a shotgun. It is a universal sound that everyone recognizes.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
    Fortunately for me, we have both. We are issued AR's and 870's. We determine which one we need at any specific incident.

    Nothing clears and unruly mob like that initial racking of a shotgun. It is a universal sound that everyone recognizes.
    Sound of 870 being racked
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    7,779
    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Not LE, but have often wondered if a 870 and a box of slugs would not have stopped the two bank robbers even with their armor?

    One shot each in head with one once slug at 1600fps and event over!!
    How about head/neck and leg/feet shots. A lot of it was the distance and amount of ammo and ferocity the two guys were able to use to thier advantage. They were setting the pace of the engagement. It took a while, for people to realize what needed to be done and eventually the guys started to wear down and they lost their pace and advantages.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally Posted by cmcampbell View Post
    If you cannot stand 12 ga recoil how are you going to be able to deal with a fight ???
    No kidding. Even with a cuff injury I love shooting the 870.

    In the words of Mellencamp, "It hurts so good."
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

    "...I ride the range in a Ford V8...Yippy Yi Yo Ki Yay." --Johnny Mercer

    "Can I move?...I'm better when I move."

    1, 1, 12. And a wakeup.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,418
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    Years later our agency took away the 870s for more "simple" weapons - Colt M4s. Colt M4s have their place, but I dare say they have no soul.

    When I hold the shotgun I feel and sense the absoluteness. To those of you who've been there, well, I think you understand.

    J.
    This is such an insightful statement. While I'm admittedly a shotgun freak, the 870 being the first weapon I ever owned, hunted with, and shot competitively since I was 11, there is something to it that's beyond the steel and walnut/polymer that really speaks to me.

    From a tactical perspective, the shotgun is devastating. Speaking from the perspective of someone who has used it for breeching, fighting, and been shot twice by one (but for the grace of God) it's a show stopper, especially in the hands of someone who understands it. I've seen it demolish flesh, bone, wood and metal. Inside structures' distances, there isn't much that can outdo the dominance of it in the hands of a trained operator. It is literally pounding a nail with a 3# maul.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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