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  1. #21
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    And how can we minimize telegraphing (on punching? ... on drawing?)

    And then...how do we avoid what we cannot telegraph being seen in the first place?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  2. #22
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    If the best you can do is shuffle due to physical ailments or environmental ones it would be and advantage to learn to draw the gun in a manner that doesn't look like you are drawing a gun. If one could make their covert draw look like they are just scratching their balls most people wouldn't pick up on it. Like wise if one is rolling on the ground after throwing someone off themselves or moving in some fashion that movement can be used to mask the draw when done in a fluid manner.
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  3. #23
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    Back in Choirboy days my Sarge and I were both 6'3" 225ish and had the biceps of pushing iron. Frequently our mere presence pacified fights. Mike was a true gentle giant and did not like to hurt people. One day a guy who was a mouthy drunk, but never took a swing at cops was spewing his normal crap and Mike just dropped him with a flashlite to the head. He was now obviously under arrest and needed some medical attention. I rode the ambulance and he was out most of the ride. We were talking to him in the ER and he asked Mike how did you know I was going to hit you tonight? I later asked Mike the same question. Mike said every punch starts with the shoulder. I had been in my share of fights and probably knew this but had never heard it articulated; it caused me to act, not react, many times.

    Choirboy

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by choirboy View Post
    Mike said every punch starts with the shoulder.
    Not every punch. ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    And how can we minimize telegraphing (on punching? ... on drawing?)
    Punching: start with a "pre-combat posture" with the shoulders already rolled forward. Imagine pulling the shoulder blades pushed apart, shoulders pushed forward to the limit of their extension. Example might be when assuming the fence posture, the shoulders immediately roll forward. Then the punch (or palm slap, or whatever) starts from the hand.

    The hand always moves fast, no matter how old you are. Other parts of the body, not so much. But everyone's capable of moving their hands fast...imagine how fast you move when your hand touches a hot stove, that's how fast you can strike.

    I haven't worked out details for an improved draw but I think this shoulder isolation is one element.
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  5. #25
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    Not every punch. ;) --Brent

    Not much opposition from the martial arts guys in my bailiwick back then. We did have one guy who was a good boxer; he bested me once. After that if he was in a fight I said you are deputized.

    Interesting times,
    Choirboy

  6. #26
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    Oct 2012
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    For draw stroke, I can think of using others actions as a distraction, thus, timing?

    So, advantage of appendix carry, less movement accessing your pistol. What using gross movements to conceal the start of the draw, or any telegraph.

    I can also think of hiding your demeanor until you're ready to strike. Whether it's a strike or draw. Often in videos of street fights, you see combatants psyching themselves up. Going from a non-combative or even compliant attitude to stone killer in an instant can and will truly scare people, as well as disrupt the ooda loop.

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  7. #27
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    Timing?

    Who said timing? Timing is more important than speed. But try to convince those combat masters running around in the world about this....

    Think setting up the premptive physically, tactically, and ostensibly "legally" (in other words...use your words to justify as you uae your skills to set up the shot).

    The fight begins with you...not the actions of the adversary.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw76 View Post
    Me too unfortunately.

    great topic though

    jim
    gee - maybe we can start a club:)

    geezer john

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    405
    Timing is more important than speed.

    There are some simple, minimalistic techniques that older/slower folks can attempt to use to break the opponents OODA loop just long enough to throw off his timing and allow for a draw or strike.....

    - If in the pre-physical stage and he is ramping up verbally to lead into an attack - he will likely make some sort of demand/command. The immediate response is a sudden verbal response of - "WHY?" Regardless of whether he intends to answer or not - he will most likely take a fraction of a second to THINK about a reply. Up close - go for the eye gouge, larynx strike or whatever. As stated - hand speed can still be pretty damn fast! Or, if possible, draw and zipper up to the head.

    - If in the pre-physical/verbal phase - and IF you haven't spoken a word yet, try either of the following.....
    1. Reply with an inquisitive sentence IN A FORIEGN LANGUAGE! e.g. - "fon colbnach Bonne brought der zug zeit stunden." (The only thing I've remembered from freshman Deutsch 40+ years ago:)
    2. This is especially good for geezers........ IN A VERY LOUD VOICE......"Say that again but louder - I don't have my hearing aids in."
    Both will possibly lead to a skip in his OODA. Attack as above or as opportunity allows.

    - If I'm in one of my "cane modes" d/t various reasons - SLOWLY raise and point or shake the cane at him. Again - easy for us geezers:). Your attacker will likely parry or grab the cane - which is the exact time you launch your attack.

    - Position your cane in front of you and then let go so that if falls towards your attacker. He will try to catch it, parry it, kick it, or step back to avoid it. Yet another micro-pause in his OODA loop for you to slip in on.

    geezer john
    Last edited by jmoore; 03-12-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    1
    It was amazing how a slight change to the draw style could camouflage our intentions, or at least keep the radar turned off for an additional second. As I think about it, a distraction ... or "bobbing-weaving" with the rest of the body while applying the techniques to appear grey, would seem to apply.

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