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  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
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    43,517
    The P290 is a deep concealment NPE, jockstrap pistol that can be carried, like a J-frame, loaded and ready to go without a holster. An NPE pistol MUST be DA, or have a heavy trigger. I would never varry a striker fired pistol thatr way for reasons mentioned. Thus a Glock 42, 43, Shield and any SIG based on the 320 trigger, is a Social Compromise Pistol and NOT an NPE pistol.

    Standard Combat Carry Weapons - Carried in a holster under light concealment. No serious repercussions if discovered. Examples below - \

    Glock 19/17/34
    Sig P320, P226
    S&W MP
    1911 series

    Social Compromise Carry - Carried in a holster, but choise is made to decrease size to allow for deeper concealment due to socially established norms where discovery would be inconvenient. Weapon may be carried holsterless but with some compromises in weapon choices (DA may be carried holsterless, but a striker fired weapon may not be). Examples below -

    Glock 26, 42, 43
    Sig Compact series 320, and now 365
    S&W Shield series
    Kahrs

    Non-Permissive Environment Carry - Discovery means summary execution or immediate arrest. Few Americans actually ever carry like this, but some do. Some of us that have carried OCONUS without the umbrella of an OGA or the US Gov have carried in an NPE manner. Holsters are proscribed. That means you carry without a holster or standard carry accessories. The reason is that there are times in a true NPE where you will wish to divorce from the weapon and not have tell-tale items indicating you were armed. Holsterless carry indicates either empty chamber carry for weapons like Glocks and M&P, or the use of DAO or DA/SA weapons like a SIG P239 or a revolver. Deep concealment requires the use of smaller weapons.

    S&W J-Frame Series
    SIG P239, and 230
    Walther PPK/PPKS
    Seecamp series

    I will say this and if it offends anyone, please reconsider your chosen carry method as you will eventually have a mishap with your pistol. I say this because we had one dude call us about help with "pocket carry of a Glock 42"

    ONLY A FOOL CARRIES A STRIKER FIRED PISTOL WITHOUT A HOLSTER
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    924
    I can definitely see the J-Frames (or in my case the LCR) and the 239 in that role. I'm not sure I think the P290rs trigger is heavy enough even with the long pull and even before it's broken in for me to feel comfortable without a holster.

    I'm having difficulty seeing how Sig has managed the dimensions they claim. I'm curious about how it compares to a G43 size wise and if Sig actually delivers a reliable product prior to a fixed second generation following a consumer financed beta test.

    I'm happy to see another micro-compact 9mm option on the market if Sig has properly engineered it.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
    Posts
    4,384
    How would you characterize a Small, Thin, DAO, Striker Fired pistol like a Kahr MK9, PM9 or CM9 or perhaps their P380?
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    43,517
    Quote Originally Posted by RayMich View Post
    How would you characterize a Small, Thin, DAO, Striker Fired pistol like a Kahr MK9, PM9 or CM9 or perhaps their P380?
    If it is short trigger/striker fired, it requires holster carry and thus NOT an NPE weapon.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Mid MI
    Posts
    4,384
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    If it is short trigger/striker fired, it requires holster carry and thus NOT an NPE weapon.

    So, if I understand your reasoning correctly, a Kel-Tec P-11 would qualify as an NPE pistol since it is small, light, thin, DAO, Long 9+ lbs Trigger, hammer fired pistol, much smaller than the SIG P239, but also holds 10+1.

    Although I have never tried to carry any handgun without a holster, not even a 642 J-frame in a pocket.
    - Ray -

    "The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it IS an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it comes to dominate our lives and interests."
    - Patrick Henry
    __________________

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Attributed to Thomas Jefferson
    __________________

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    713
    FWIW, the Kahr P PM MK series, while striker, are long trigger DAO.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    2,506
    As someone who carries all the time in office settings where I would likely lose my job if found out, I still don't see the need to go smaller than a G26. For me, double stack magazines are way more difficult to conceal comfortably than an AIWB holstered pistol.

    I think the line between true NPE's and sorta-NPE's is kinda blurry. A real NPE to me is somewhere I can expect to be wanded or patted down as a matter of course.
    "Hey I've got an idea! We should make welfare as easy to get as VA benefits."
    "If you see something, say something... so we can call you a racist!"
    "Zen? Meh! Who needs it? All that effort to achieve nothingness and what do you got? Bupkis!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC for refit
    Posts
    1,606
    sigp365.jpg
    Got hands on one last Tuesday.
    The photo above has the 12 round magazine inserted, the pistol will ship with a 10rd flush fit and 10rd with a finger thing base pad.
    It felt ok in the hand and the trigger press was similar to the P320 with a little more weight.

    v/r

    JD

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,791
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    Many people choose the Shield over the G43 because the grip, though slightly more difficult to conceal, just fills the palm better.
    I picked the shield because it was $200!
    When gunslingers come to town, sai, things get broken. It's a simple fact of life.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Misery
    Posts
    4
    I ran a P239 for a couple years. Great pistols. Not sure if youíve put your hands on a P225-A1 yet, but for me it fit and shot much better than either of my P239ís.

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