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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Made it to Free America
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    13,286
    I think we too often forget that a AK isn't a AR. Maybe with enough $$$ we can sorta make it sorta like a AR; but it was never meant to be the same, nor be used in anyway like the AR. Just like the Dragunov isn't the same as a M24 or M110. Once we accept that the AK is a 200-300 yard body shot weapon the versus 200 yard head shot and 600 yard body shots we expect of a quality AR; the differences become clear-er.

    In that mind set a Tapco/Century AK "fits" the AK concept. Remember theres a reason the selector goes from Safe to Full Auto and only to Semi AFTER Full Auto. The AK replaced the SMG; but the tactical role it fills remains more SMG than "Assault Rifle". With that idea, a 200-300 yard AK "works" as intended. Is that what we want, IDK; but it doesn't make the AK out dated or even a bad weapon.

    The AR is king while the AK is a peasant but both can and will kill.
    Last edited by EDELWEISS; 01-01-2018 at 05:04 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    1,583
    I have several AK platforms that range from WASR to Arsenal and in both 47 and 74 variants.

    They arealy arent primary platforms any more except a Yugo underfolder that sometimes gets tossed in as a truck gun. However they don’t eat anything and I don’t need to sell them to fund other projects and I have a lot of ammo for them so mostly they sit and occasionally come out for fun and familiarization firing.

    I do do believe the first thing we learned in Gabe’s AK course was that “The AK is not an AR and don’t try to run it like one or expect it to perform like one”.

    I’m still a fan of them because they are reliable and just plain fun to shoot. But if someone tells me we are going to a fight I’ll reach past all my AR’s and grab an FAL. Don’t get me wrong the AR is a wonderful and reliable and accurate platform. I’m just different and like big bullets. Maybe an 18” AR-10 will be my first project in the new year.

    As as for the start of the AK I agree with Gabe. It’s days are past. Magpul has brought us magazines they are as good or better then the old Circle 10 mags as well as some greats tricks and forends. Toss on a a forend raid and a good red dot and it still makes a reasonable battle carbine.

    Should we we be pouring money into them these days? NO. We have explored the platform for many years and learned it’s lomitations.

    However if if you don’t own one you should at least spend a litte range time with a friend who has one simply because there are so many of them out there and we should be familiar with what our enamies may have.
    I carry two kinds of trauma kits. One for fixing it and one for causing it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
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    44,863
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    The AR is king while the AK is a peasant but both can and will kill.
    So will an Atlatl...but I still would not select that as my first or even tenth choice.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    120
    I still have my AKs and will keep them.

    I recognize their limitations and am slowly and deliberately returning to the AR platform.

    My Yugo UF continues to serve as my truck gun until I've built an AR pistol that I'm happy with for that purpose.

    My Saiga 308s are set up like Gabe original GSR and with 168gr or heavier bullets will shoot MOA or better - if I can build a 308 AR as accurate, I'll switch.

    The others are accurate enough within their envelope. I have plenty of mags, ammo and spares for them so, they're well supported.

    In reality, there are two rifle systems in the world - the AK and the AR. I teach students to run both but, the AR is the better system and I tell them that without reservation or hesitation.
    Last edited by Ulf; 01-03-2018 at 07:59 AM.
    From his weapons on the open road no man should step one pace away; you don't know for certain when you're out on the road when you might have need of your spear. Havamal 38

    NRA Certified Instructor, Glock Certified Armorer, Gunsmith, Veteran.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulf View Post
    I still have my AKs and will keep them.

    I recognize their heir limitations and am slowly and deliberately returning to the AR platform.

    My Yugo UF continues to serve as my truck gun until I've built an AR pistol that I'm happy with for that purpose.

    My Saiga 308s are set up like Gabe original GSR and with 168gr or heavier bullets will shoot MOA or better - if I can build a 308 AR as accurate, I'll switch.

    The others are accurate enough within their envelope. I have plenty of mags, ammo and spares for them so, they're well supported.

    In reality, there are two rifle systems in the world - the AK and the AR. I teach students to run both but, the AR is the better system and I tell them that without reservation or hesitation.
    Pretty much my thinking on the matter except I am going 6.5 grendel in the AR. The 6.5 g is more powerful and better at not only longer ranges, but also shorter ranges than 5.56, 300 blkout and the 7.62x39. The original 300 whisper was meant solely for suppressor use and now as the blackout it serves as an AR15 substitute for the 7.62x39 being only slightly less powerful. Still really not suitable for longer ranges. With the 6.5 I make my debut into the AR world.

    The russians could modernize the AK and make it more modular if they were so inclined. The trunion in front could easily be redesigned from a press fit and rivet type to one in which the barrel readily removed. Trigger can probably never be as nice as what can be done on the AR due to the slamming impulse of the massive bolt-gas piston system. But none of this is likely to be happening. It is quite possible that that the russians could be choosing another system.
    But with likely a 100 million plus AKs in the world it is will not be going anywhere
    The AK-47 has made it into the Guinness Book of Records as the most widely spread weapon in the world, with 100 million Kalashnikov rifles currently in use. 5. Military and special forces in 106 countries around the globe from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe are now armed with AK-47s
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    375
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    The russians could modernize the AK and make it more modular if they were so inclined. The trunion in front could easily be redesigned from a press fit and rivet type to one in which the barrel readily removed. Trigger can probably never be as nice as what can be done on the AR due to the slamming impulse of the massive bolt-gas piston system. But none of this is likely to be happening. It is quite possible that that the russians could be choosing another system.
    But with likely a 100 million plus AKs in the world it is will not be going anywhere
    The AK12 and AK16 were on the table for replacing the AK74. Both are very good upgrades to Kalashnikov's baby with good ergonomic and modular enhancements. However, there isn't the funding for it so Russia will be pushing hard on the AK74M rather than the AK12.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ces-new-ak-12/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfiOug5MVmE&t=93s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g0_Fr3dW3A

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    14,971
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer27 View Post
    The AK12 and AK16 were on the table for replacing the AK74. Both are very good upgrades to Kalashnikov's baby with good ergonomic and modular enhancements. However, there isn't the funding for it so Russia will be pushing hard on the AK74M rather than the AK12.

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ces-new-ak-12/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfiOug5MVmE&t=93s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g0_Fr3dW3A
    On the retention of the AK one must remember that upper level military people often think with what was learned in past wars in contrast to the younger ones that are actually fighting. For the role that it was designed the AK serves the mission. But we do not have wars so much any more, but conflicts that involve lesser personnel and often uses more highly trained personnel. The battles are not huge involving thousands of men with all of the classic supporting ordnance. When the battles have been big like in the past Arab-isreali battles, they still very fast and over quickly. Fighting people want lighter and more precise rifles.
    Perhaps it is cost, but maybe just inertia on the part of the russians.
    Relative to the cost of the AK, about 6-8 yrs a Romanian claimed here on WT that the basic FA version of the WASR was $75 a unit for Romania. I bet the newer designs will be more expensive, especially in the short run to make. But, rifles assuming that the mag and ammo stay the same are not the predominate cost of equipping a military. But for sure the bean counters can not ignore those costs either.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    8,491
    Iíll keep an AK forever for the same reason. But I have 2-3 in the safe asking for a new home.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD

    DISCIPLINA EST LIBERTATEM
    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO


    T
    WOTU Since 2012


  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,775
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    All this talk of AKs has me wanting one again. I truth all Ive got to do is go into the vault and grab anything from a RPK to a SBR, with a few really nice full size guns in between; but now I'm jonesing for a AK pistol (braced) with a Ultimak and a Aimpoint. No it wont replace my AKs, especially not my new 300 build; I guess its the rebel in me....
    Saw an Arsenal pistol at the pawn shop before Christmas as I was poking around while the folks were in the drug store. If it had of been a 7.62 I might have pulled the trigger on it but it was 5.56. The thought that kept rattling around is my head was "That looks like Gabe's SBR!" since it had that rear sight. I've still got AK mags and some rounds in the safe and sometimes entertain the idea of getting an AK.......or even one of those AR Mutant things to play with.
    When gunslingers come to town, sai, things get broken. It's a simple fact of life.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    194
    I still have a couple of AK's that I probably will not get rid of. I will still take out the AMD-65 every once in a while. I bought that one simply because it was, with the exception of the trigger, totally Hungarian made. It is one of the most accurate ones I ever had. I certainly would no longer consider using an AK as a primary unless I had to. AR is a far better platform. Only trouble is they seem to replicate. I have too many of them. Built one for my daughter last year, then gave one to my son this Christmas. I know the AK vs. AR debate was settled long ago for me, but I'll keep the AK's just because.

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