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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Tull View Post
    ...That's why I went with the Brevis II Ultra. When we look at a suppressor for CQB, let's consider the purpose. For me, it's being able to shoot the gun indoors without ruining my hearing, while adding minimal length. It's probably a little louder than other suppressors...
    Eric, I'm asking because I'm really interested in the Brevis. From the one article I read (link), the author seems to infer that its not ear safe??? Maybe I read it wrong. My interest for it is much like yours BUT it has to be indoor ear safe to be useful--does it fill that role for you?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    Eric, I'm asking because I'm really interested in the Brevis. From the one article I read (link), the author seems to infer that its not ear safe??? Maybe I read it wrong. My interest for it is much like yours BUT it has to be indoor ear safe to be useful--does it fill that role for you?
    I'm too tired to look it up (see above with the flu thing), but IIRC, isn't just about every 5.56 suppressor technically not "hearing safe"? I honestly forget what decibel level most set that at. No, I wouldn't want to shoot it all day without hearing protection. But then again, I've never shot a 5.56 suppressed gun that I was comfortable not wearing hearing protection. I'm young, and have done a good job at keeping my hearing intact, so what hurts my ears probably doesn't for most people. Unfortunately, that's about all the info I can give right right now without a decibel meter and some guns for comparison.
    Last edited by Eric Tull; 02-11-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Update: One article said that with a 10.3" barrel, the Brevis II was 138 dB off to the side of the muzzle.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
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    Formerly "ericmt"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Tull View Post
    I'm too tired to look it up (see above with the flu thing), but IIRC, isn't just about every 5.56 suppressor technically not "hearing safe"? I honestly forget what decibel level most set that at. No, I wouldn't want to shoot it all day without hearing protection. But then again, I've never shot a 5.56 suppressed gun that I was comfortable not wearing hearing protection. I'm young, and have done a good job at keeping my hearing intact, so what hurts my ears probably doesn't for most people. Unfortunately, that's about all the info I can give right right now without a decibel meter and some guns for comparison.
    Talking about semi-autos, yeah, most good 5.56 suppressors are right on the edge of "hearing safe" for the shooter. They can be comfortable for people standing just a couple feet away, but still ring the shooter's ears even on a properly tuned AR. 138 dB for that tiny suppressor seems pretty good to me, given the size. Just send it to me and I'll be sure to give it a thorough evaluation for you!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yondering View Post
    Talking about semi-autos, yeah, most good 5.56 suppressors are right on the edge of "hearing safe" for the shooter. They can be comfortable for people standing just a couple feet away, but still ring the shooter's ears even on a properly tuned AR.
    Thanks for the clarification!

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    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
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    Formerly "ericmt"

  6. #26
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    My current interest is more in suppressors than guns, so I've been mixing it up with the "experts" over at ar15.com. A few comments...

    The typical definition of "hearing safe" is below 140 db. However, that is only OSHA's standard for a single pulse and the definition of "threshold of pain". Multiple closely-spaced gunshots is not the same thing, so if somebody wants to be confident they are avoiding hearing damage, they should not use that number. I don't know what the real number is, but even at 100 db OSHA says exposure should be limited to 15 minutes a day (workplace guidelines). The way I look at it, any suppression is better than the alternative (nothing) for a real-world gunfight, but anything else should include hearing protection unless I know that my levels are significantly below 140 (9mm, .22, subsonic ammo, etc.).

    The testing of sound levels is still a murky issue. First, there is no "industry standard" other than a commonly used "1 meter to the left of the muzzle", and nobody is sure where that came from except that it is really old (started in the 70's?). Actual milspec standards are much more detailed (specifications about the meter sensitivity and performance, testing in multiple locations, etc.). For a long time military specifications have included measuring at the shooter's ear. Some amateur testers have started adding "6 inches from right ear", but very few manufacturers have been including such measurements in their marketing, unless it is actually beneficial for them (OSS was the leader in this regard--their stuff measures lower at the ear than at the muzzle, by design). The dirty little secret that the industry has kept for decades is that most conventional baffle designs that perform well at the muzzle produce much higher levels at the shooter's ear on a semi-auto rifle. I've seen tests of 5.56 products that get into the low 130's at the muzzle on a 16" AR but are close to 150 db at the shooter's ear!

    Further complicating things is that there are meters being used in testing that do not get anywhere near the military specs. These meters can provide very inaccurate results in YouTube videos, and the viewers have no way to know any better. Good meters are expensive--the current top of the line is the B&K Pulse system, which costs 10's of thousands of dollars to buy (no idea of the rental rates, but it's probably beyond the capability of a YouTuber). The meter that Silencer Shop uses in their videos doesn't meet the specs. There are manufacturers using meters that don't meet the specs. The one MAC uses is the same as Silencer Shop--it's not the worst, but it still doesn't meet the spec.

    So finding accurate numbers that include testing at the ear can be very challenging. Finding numbers for your setup can be even more difficult! For example, Silencer Shop includes measurements at the ear in a lot of their videos, but most of their 7.62 testing is done using a bolt gun--that doesn't tell you much about what that suppressor is going to do on your AR-10! Finding good data using SBRs is also very difficult. Manufacturers rarely include details about their testing protocols and details when they put a db number in their marketing. The only metrics you can be confident about is weight and length, and even then you can't be sure! (Sig evidently was rather optimistic at one point with their listed weights, for example)

    Anyway, regarding specific products...

    I've always been a big OSS fan because of their emphasis on eliminating backpressure and prioritizing levels at the ear, and they just released a brand new lineup. They say this is the design they have been working on for 2 years since the split with the founder. They brought the price down considerably, and also made it lighter, shorter, stronger, and more quiet (their words, not mine).




    I'm very interested in the Brevis, but hoping they can bring that price down! Unfortunately I have yet to see a good review where the levels are tested, but I'm anxiously hoping it will happen soon. (side note--if anybody wants to volunteer theirs for a reputable tester to put on a meter and then put on YouTube, PM me and I can send you details)

    The 3D printing thing seems to be growing--After the Brevis, we saw Daniel Defense come out with the Wave last year, and I saw 2 newcomers announced at SHOT this year. I like the idea of a company that is already well-established in the manufacturing and aerospace worlds bringing their expertise to these products--they have a lot of experience with 3D printing for high stress applications! Hopefully we'll see some knowledgeable independent reviews soon.

    The first is called Ellison Dynamic Concepts:




    Another one called Thermal Defense Solutions:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...nse-solutions/

    Looks like their web site is operational--the one that looks most interesting to me is the TDS-P:

    https://www.thermaldefenseinc.com/product-page/tds-p

    4", 28 db reduction

    Hope some of that was helpful--I'm trying to learn more and happy to pass it on to others!

  7. #27
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    It kinda seems like the biggest question that should be addressed first but I haven't seen addressed yet is "what are you using one for?" this should guide you to the suppressor that will best suit your needs.

    In the field: You want one that disburses the sound signature so you are harder to locate during a string of fire
    Urban: You want one that isn't going to rattle your teeth or that of your team while firing around team mates in confined spaces usually made of sound reflective material so it's more about concussion than Dbl level.
    Home Defense: you don't want your head ringing after the first couple of rounds as you may not have time to collect ear pro, keep in mind that most home are designed with sound deadening materials.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    It kinda seems like the biggest question that should be addressed first but I haven't seen addressed yet is "what are you using one for?" this should guide you to the suppressor that will best suit your needs.

    In the field: You want one that disburses the sound signature so you are harder to locate during a string of fire
    Urban: You want one that isn't going to rattle your teeth or that of your team while firing around team mates in confined spaces usually made of sound reflective material so it's more about concussion than Dbl level.
    Home Defense: you don't want your head ringing after the first couple of rounds as you may not have time to collect ear pro, keep in mind that most home are designed with sound deadening materials.
    Yup, very good point. If I was a sniper, I couldn't care less about length--all I want is something that is as quiet as possible. For home or CQB, the shorter the better.

    There is a dealer in Minnesota who has been doing demos with police departments and SWAT teams--he lets them shoot thousands of rounds comparing a bunch of suppressor options on a bunch of guns (regular and short barrel). He says so far they have all chosen OSS to purchase. That's really the best way to choose what's best for your application--actually try out the various options for yourself.

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Tull View Post
    I'm too tired to look it up (see above with the flu thing), but IIRC, isn't just about every 5.56 suppressor technically not "hearing safe"? I honestly forget what decibel level most set that at. No, I wouldn't want to shoot it all day without hearing protection. But then again, I've never shot a 5.56 suppressed gun that I was comfortable not wearing hearing protection. I'm young, and have done a good job at keeping my hearing intact, so what hurts my ears probably doesn't for most people. Unfortunately, that's about all the info I can give right right now without a decibel meter and some guns for comparison.
    My hearing is damaged, but I still do not like to hear loud noises.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post

    Another one called Thermal Defense Solutions:

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...nse-solutions/

    Looks like their web site is operational--the one that looks most interesting to me is the TDS-P:

    https://www.thermaldefenseinc.com/product-page/tds-p

    4", 28 db reduction

    Hope some of that was helpful--I'm trying to learn more and happy to pass it on to others!
    Those are interesting. I asked how they test, and they verified those dB numbers are tested at the ear. There will also be an introductory sale beginning later this week.

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