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  1. #1
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    May 2006
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    Default I am setting up my first AR-What about Dual Optics?

    I am going from AK and other 30 cal rifles to 6.5 grendel. I just received an Alexander arms upper with a light wt 18" barrel plan to soon pick up a lower locally.

    An AR will never be the battle ax that an AK is, but accuracy and lower perceived recoil are the advantages I see to choosing the AR. Of course superior after market options and modularity are also important. Just about anyone can become an AR builder.

    AKs are quite adequate up close, but as the distances increase they can not compete with a decently set up AR. In my perception of combat, the distances are likely to be closer, like under 50 yards and ranges over 200 yards not so common. But long range gunfights do occur and so how to chose a sighting system(s) for all distances.

    What can people here tell me about dual sighting systems. In my mind a 1x red dot sight or eotech should be the primary sight and a quality optic backup for longer ranges. But the question is how to implement something like this in a practical manner. I see some people put the RDS offset and are using it as a secondary system.
    I would appreciate reading of experiences and thoughts on the above from members of WT.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    I went with an aim point pro and a three power Burris magnifier with a quick release mount for long range or siding in.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I went with an aim point pro and a three power Burris magnifier with a quick release mount for long range or siding in.
    Thanks for mentioning magnifiers. The magnifiers seem to be another option, but is 3x enough for head shooting someone at 400 yards with an aim point. I was just looking at eotech propaganda and they say that their one minute dot stays as one minute when viewed through a magnifier in contrast to the typical laser based RDS sight that gets magnified.
    http://www.eotechinc.com/holographic...-red-dot-sight


    eotect propaganda.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    913
    Do you really want dual optics? With the distances the 6.5 Grendel can cover I’d be looking at some kind of 1-6 or 1-8 power optic. They can be had with a reticle that’s designed for up close for speed and has the ability for precision at moderate distances. You could mount one of those and throw some back up irons on and I’d say you would be good to go.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    2,292
    My 16 And 18 rifles wear Low Power Variable Optics (16 is a Trijicon 1-4, 18 is a Trijicon 1-8). My 8.1 Pistol Sports an Aimpoint T1 with a Sig Juliet4 magnifier. I see no reason to run an offset optic (as long as it is in a good QD Mount ) with a LPVO. The better question is, how much do you want to spend? An EOTech Or Aimpoint Pro and a Juliet4 will run about $700-$800 plus $100 for BUIS. A good 1-4 LPVO and QD Mount will be $1000 plus $100 for BUIS. A 1-8 with QD Mount will be $1750 plus $100 for BUIS. Its all personal preference. I will say, Duty ready LPVOs are not cheap (nor are decent QD Mounts). If youre on the fence, Id go with an Aimpoint with a 2MOA dot and a Juliet4 magnifier (the factory flip to side QD Mount is excellent).


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  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOLF220 View Post
    Do you really want dual optics? With the distances the 6.5 Grendel can cover I’d be looking at some kind of 1-6 or 1-8 power optic. They can be had with a reticle that’s designed for up close for speed and has the ability for precision at moderate distances. You could mount one of those and throw some back up irons on and I’d say you would be good to go.
    Most important is meat on the metal distances. The issue is for long ranges one needs some magnification and so how to still deal well with very close and far away targets.
    The closer an enemy is the more dangerous and the greater the need to to stop them like now instantly. The best sights for that are likely express sights as used on close range dangerous game guns that obviously can not serve well where precision is needed.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    6,695
    The appropriate optic is determined based on (a) the mission, and (b) the underlying platform. An 18" 6.5 Grendel isn't a great choice for CQB. That gun's great strength is range and portability. It's reasonably light, but still a capable 800m gun. I think that not putting a good magnified optic on that gun is failing to take advantage of its strengths. I would echo the suggestion for a 1-6/8x optic. Even something like a 2.5-10x would fit that gun. A 1x RDS, on that gun, should be a back-up sight, not a primary. Personally, I prefer irons for back-ups, but a T2 or RMR wouldn't be wrong (just more expensive, more obtrusive, and arguably overkill).

    Keep the AKs for your 50m running gunfights. Use the 6.5 for another role.
    Virtute et Armis

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Heckathorn View Post
    My 16 And 18 rifles wear Low Power Variable Optics (16 is a Trijicon 1-4, 18 is a Trijicon 1-8). My 8.1 Pistol Sports an Aimpoint T1 with a Sig Juliet4 magnifier. I see no reason to run an offset optic (as long as it is in a good QD Mount ) with a LPVO. The better question is, how much do you want to spend? An EOTech Or Aimpoint Pro and a Juliet4 will run about $700-$800 plus $100 for BUIS. A good 1-4 LPVO and QD Mount will be $1000 plus $100 for BUIS. A 1-8 with QD Mount will be $1750 plus $100 for BUIS. Its all personal preference. I will say, Duty ready LPVOs are not cheap (nor are decent QD Mounts). If youre on the fence, Id go with an Aimpoint with a 2MOA dot and a Juliet4 magnifier (the factory flip to side QD Mount is excellent).

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the information. I will have to do some research since some of the mentioned items I am not familiar with. If this upper works out for me then I will willing to pay a bit for a decent sighting system. I do not mind paying a lot if I am spending wisely for what I want.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    South-Central Idaho
    Posts
    2,854
    There are a lot of good 1-4/1-6/1-8 optics out there that have good CQB reticles on them.

    My Grendel wears a 3-9 Leupold Mark AR mildot with Fire dot. But I look at it as more of a distance set up.
    Wanna Learn about Medicinal Herbs & Edible Plants?
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    NWFL
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    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    The appropriate optic is determined based on (a) the mission, and (b) the underlying platform. An 18" 6.5 Grendel isn't a great choice for CQB. That gun's great strength is range and portability. It's reasonably light, but still a capable 800m gun. I think that not putting a good magnified optic on that gun is failing to take advantage of its strengths. I would echo the suggestion for a 1-6/8x optic. Even something like a 2.5-10x would fit that gun. A 1x RDS, on that gun, should be a back-up sight, not a primary. Personally, I prefer irons for back-ups, but a T2 or RMR wouldn't be wrong (just more expensive, more obtrusive, and arguably overkill).

    Keep the AKs for your 50m running gunfights. Use the 6.5 for another role.
    The mission is to kill a foe that is in a position to kill me. All weapons systems are compromises and it is difficult in a reactive scenario to know exactly what will develop. A battle rifle should be able to give a good account at any distance. If you are setting up an ambush or assaulting a position you are better able to know the distances. I am trying to set up one rifle to serve in outdoor locales on my little estate. Since I have cleared some land I can now see 200 yards and if go out to the street or climb to an elevated position I can see a bit further. a 6.5 should kill quite well at 50 m.
    Photo of hollywood gunfighter with a gun for every purpose.

    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

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