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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Kally-four-nee-ya
    Posts
    141
    You have to do the dry practice. Lots. Then more. And you need to train with the real experts. I’ve trained with/at lots of “go-fast”/“black-bird” places, on duty and on my own dime; but for gunFIGHTING with the RMR in today’s 5th-Column reality you need to make the investment and train with S.I. My training experience with them was as good as or better than any I have ever been to. I’m in NorCal too, and it wasn’t cheap to get there and stay there, but it was worth every penny and moment. I don’t even count the class cost because what I received from Mr. Suarez, Mr. Nichols, and Mr. Yamamoto; as well as the other students, was truly invaluable.

    For dry-practice, when I’m doing a session it really makes a difference if I am set up “for real”; as in belt, holster, mag pouches, cell phone, knife, wallets etc. in the clothing I wear when I go forth from my fortress of solitude. (Yes I make my sure gun is empty of ammo ad no ammo on the person.)

    I went so far as to weigh a fully loaded 19 magazine and 17 magazine, then filled some gutted 10-rounders of same with wheel weights until I had dummy magazines that weigh the same as their real loaded counterparts. (Since these don’t have followers, they handle and function in the gun for reload drills like fully loaded mags as well.) I use these, plus one empty with the follower in place to get some slide lock reps, for my dry-practice. (Base plates on these are painted an ugly bright green, which for me means no ammo ever.)

    Once I’m set up as described, I practice the draw to dot to shot from concealment. Over and over with the fully weighted but empty gun.

    Before I carried my RMR gun, I did at least 15-20 minutes every day for a good 2 weeks of draw, pick up irons, see dot, press, reset, press. Repeat. Some days I did more, with different reloads techniques and then added some simple movement. Always did some primary hand only and support hand only. (Which I still need a lot of work on.). Even incorporated extra reps into my work-outs in my garage. After that I started carrying the gun on duty/off, every day/everywhere. But I am/was also the geek who practiced getting the dot from low ready when I was sitting on the can at work, in my cubicle when the office was empty, sitting in the car for hours alone when I was on the City’s Protective Detail, etc.

    I still do a lot of dry practice, and still do reps that are primarily about getting that dot AFAP. Often I will do several reps pretty slowly, really focusing on the mechanics of my draw, making sure that I’m driving the dot directly onto my target, without the dot going left/right/up, and having to be moved to the target after it comes into focus.

    Last week when I was at the range, I think I spent 30-40 minutes on a 6-plate rack just working the draw to dot to shot. I gave the plates a fresh coat of paint to see my hits, and then it was full presentation from concealment to dot to shot on one plate. Slow holster. Repeat on the next plate. And so on for all six. Goal was smooth draw, quick dot on the plate with no adjustment, and a centered hit. Worked at 10 yards, as that is the PBZ of my RMR. After 100 rounds, I started shooting 2 plates. Then 2 opposite, then 2 skips, etc. I’ve done this drill before and it REALLY helps speed up and smooth out the draw/dot/shot.

    I do think that now and for the maybe last 6 months or so I’m just as fast on the RMR dot as I ever was with getting a good iron sight picture. But it took a lot of practice.

    AND every day the gun goes on, I add “+2 minutes” to Mr. Suarez’s “2 minutes of cheap insurance” and do several full presentations from carry/concealment to the dot. 2-handed and one-handed. And I try to do several throughout the day when my location allows for it. Sure I miss some days for dedicated dry-practice, but the few reps when I holster up in the morning and when it comes off before bed are like breathing.

    I still have work to do. Especially one-handed. Luckily, every time I think I’m “really great”, I hear a certain voice in the back of my head that says “Yeah, but compared to where you could be tomorrow, right now you suck.”

    Never a “master.” Always the practitioner.
    VIRES HONOR VIRTUS FIDES

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    6,674
    I am also willing to bet many of us have more experience with and have been carrying them longer then him as well...
    Geek Warlord
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tucson via Detroit
    Posts
    654
    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDS View Post
    You have to do the dry practice. Lots. Then more. And you need to train with the real experts. I’ve trained with/at lots of “go-fast”/“black-bird” places, on duty and on my own dime; but for gunFIGHTING with the RMR in today’s 5th-Column reality you need to make the investment and train with S.I. My training experience with them was as good as or better than any I have ever been to. I’m in NorCal too, and it wasn’t cheap to get there and stay there, but it was worth every penny and moment. I don’t even count the class cost because what I received from Mr. Suarez, Mr. Nichols, and Mr. Yamamoto; as well as the other students, was truly invaluable.

    For dry-practice, when I’m doing a session it really makes a difference if I am set up “for real”; as in belt, holster, mag pouches, cell phone, knife, wallets etc. in the clothing I wear when I go forth from my fortress of solitude. (Yes I make my sure gun is empty of ammo ad no ammo on the person.)

    I went so far as to weigh a fully loaded 19 magazine and 17 magazine, then filled some gutted 10-rounders of same with wheel weights until I had dummy magazines that weigh the same as their real loaded counterparts. (Since these don’t have followers, they handle and function in the gun for reload drills like fully loaded mags as well.) I use these, plus one empty with the follower in place to get some slide lock reps, for my dry-practice. (Base plates on these are painted an ugly bright green, which for me means no ammo ever.)

    Once I’m set up as described, I practice the draw to dot to shot from concealment. Over and over with the fully weighted but empty gun.

    Before I carried my RMR gun, I did at least 15-20 minutes every day for a good 2 weeks of draw, pick up irons, see dot, press, reset, press. Repeat. Some days I did more, with different reloads techniques and then added some simple movement. Always did some primary hand only and support hand only. (Which I still need a lot of work on.). Even incorporated extra reps into my work-outs in my garage. After that I started carrying the gun on duty/off, every day/everywhere. But I am/was also the geek who practiced getting the dot from low ready when I was sitting on the can at work, in my cubicle when the office was empty, sitting in the car for hours alone when I was on the City’s Protective Detail, etc.

    I still do a lot of dry practice, and still do reps that are primarily about getting that dot AFAP. Often I will do several reps pretty slowly, really focusing on the mechanics of my draw, making sure that I’m driving the dot directly onto my target, without the dot going left/right/up, and having to be moved to the target after it comes into focus.

    Last week when I was at the range, I think I spent 30-40 minutes on a 6-plate rack just working the draw to dot to shot. I gave the plates a fresh coat of paint to see my hits, and then it was full presentation from concealment to dot to shot on one plate. Slow holster. Repeat on the next plate. And so on for all six. Goal was smooth draw, quick dot on the plate with no adjustment, and a centered hit. Worked at 10 yards, as that is the PBZ of my RMR. After 100 rounds, I started shooting 2 plates. Then 2 opposite, then 2 skips, etc. I’ve done this drill before and it REALLY helps speed up and smooth out the draw/dot/shot.

    I do think that now and for the maybe last 6 months or so I’m just as fast on the RMR dot as I ever was with getting a good iron sight picture. But it took a lot of practice.

    AND every day the gun goes on, I add “+2 minutes” to Mr. Suarez’s “2 minutes of cheap insurance” and do several full presentations from carry/concealment to the dot. 2-handed and one-handed. And I try to do several throughout the day when my location allows for it. Sure I miss some days for dedicated dry-practice, but the few reps when I holster up in the morning and when it comes off before bed are like breathing.

    I still have work to do. Especially one-handed. Luckily, every time I think I’m “really great”, I hear a certain voice in the back of my head that says “Yeah, but compared to where you could be tomorrow, right now you suck.”

    Never a “master.” Always the practitioner.
    This. I've witnessed his shooting and it's legit.

    Bunny Trail not directed at the OP or anyone in particular : if, as a "shooter", you're unwilling to find the time to dry fire, you're just pretending. There's no problem with being a gun collector, but don't bother others with your bullshit if you're unwilling to put in the time to get better. The only easy buttons are places like WT where you get this information for free, bought and paid for by others with blood/sweat/tears and cash. -End Rant.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The biggest hindrance to adaptability is ego.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    I am also willing to bet many of us have more experience with and have been carrying them longer then him as well...
    Did you actually watch the video?

    It wasn't a comprehensive "this is the right way to do it", it was just a little tip, offering something you might want to try to see if you like it.

    We should be happy that other instructors are spending more time talking about red dots. I've seen one who is growing in popularity start using one on his daily carry gun. Heck, even Yeager is saying nice things about them now!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,852
    Mike...do me a favor...grab one of MY videos and put it in one of their forums and see if you get the same response you got from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    Did you actually watch the video?

    It wasn't a comprehensive "this is the right way to do it", it was just a little tip, offering something you might want to try to see if you like it.

    We should be happy that other instructors are spending more time talking about red dots. I've seen one who is growing in popularity start using one on his daily carry gun. Heck, even Yeager is saying nice things about them now!
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,852
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    ..... are stealing Suarez's ideas and work about red dots without the slightest attribution.
    There...fixed it to reflect reality
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    There...fixed it to reflect reality
    lol no, I don't think they are that smart--they're all still doing it wrong, to varying degrees.

    The Internet is really good at telling people what's best, so I have no doubt that anybody looking for info about best practices will still end up here (eventually).

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,277
    Quote Originally Posted by mike135 View Post
    This reminded me of this video, which I haven't seen discussed here--thoughts?

    Q: Which of his techniques induces vertical displacement errors??
    A: BOTH

    I’d stick with stopping longitudinal “extention”...simple physics...just sayin’

    Don’t need a RDS to prove that.
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor

    From Murphy: "If it looks stupid and it works, it ain't stupid"


  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    2,922
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Demosthenes View Post
    Q: Which of his techniques induces vertical displacement errors??
    A: BOTH

    I’d stick with stopping longitudinal “extention”...simple physics...just sayin’

    Don’t need a RDS to prove that.
    Yup.

    Anyone else notice the "speed reholstering" in the video too?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,277

    Default Speed and picking up a red dot

    Yup. Looked on some, blind on others...smooth tho’

    To be clear, I consider Haley a very good instructor. However, as stated above, I do not consider the “Tip” or technique he presents to be effective or smart.
    Last edited by Ted Demosthenes; 12-05-2017 at 08:53 AM.
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor

    From Murphy: "If it looks stupid and it works, it ain't stupid"


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