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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    28

    Default Speed and picking up a red dot

    I have a SI G19 w/ Trijicon Red Dot on a G26 frame.

    Attended a class this weekend and noticed something interesting...

    The question came up at what point/distance do you use the red dot vs what point or distance you use the red dot
    or go to the irons.

    I.E., we were doing a drill with 3 targets at point blank range and one target apx 30' left and one target 30' right.

    Obviously, no red dot at 5', but trying to pick up the red dot on the 30' target was like, what somebody called,

    a cat chasing a laser on the wall. My pick-up was slow, went to irons and the acquisition sped up.

    Is that just a training with the red dot issue or? Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    3,913
    You pick up front sight and that gets the dot in the glass. A visual hand off occurs and the dot takes over your primary vision (eliminating three sight plane shooting) . After a few thousand presentations, you can pick up the dot no problem in dark places where the front sight isnt readily visible. Having said that, unless you are doing surgical shooting the TSOD (TV Screen Of Death) will still get you body hits at that distance (10 yards) easy.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    4,850
    An experienced shooter had thousands of repetitions driving the gun and picking up the sights. Just do the same thing you've always done. The dot will come into view during that process, from that moment you can ignore the sights.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    NW Washington
    Posts
    2,922
    Quote Originally Posted by celtica View Post

    Is that just a training with the red dot issue or? Thoughts?
    IMO, yes, and the problem can be either lack of practice in presenting the dot, or just trying to go faster than your skill level. Both are remedied by more practice of course; there is definitely a learning curve to using a red dot effectively.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,905
    Whose class? If the instructor knew about red dots he would have had an answer. The problem...and it a very real one...red dots are the "jujitsu" of the gun world. Everyone wants to teach BJJ but few want to roll around on the mat with a Gracie. The point of the analogy is that the majority of people purporting to teach red dot skills do not have any idea what, why or how.

    Please read more here -

    RED DOT SHOOTING SKILLS - THE ASYMMETRIC DOT

    THE RMR AND THE BINDON AIMING CONCEPT

    PERCEIVED RED DOT PROBLEMS
    USING THE ASYMMETRIC DOT

    CO-WITNESSING PISTOL SIGHTS AND RED DOTS

    RED DOT SIGHTING SYSTEMS CONCEPT

    VIDEO - RED DOT PISTOL SKILLS - PART 4
    VIDEO - RED DOT PISTOL SKILLS - PART 1

    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    An experienced shooter had thousands of repetitions driving the gun and picking up the sights. Just do the same thing you've always done. The dot will come into view during that process, from that moment you can ignore the sights.
    This^^^
    It seems the hardest thing to explain to a new shooter trying out one of my RMR'ed guns is to just look for the iron sights, just like you have always done and the dot will be there by your front iron sight and your brain, with practice, will do the hand off without you having to think about it. It takes practice and reps to develop that skill.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    28
    Gabe,
    No it wasn't a SI class. I live in NorCal, your classes are a long ways away. I have been to SI classes in Vegas two times,
    NorCal once but not for red dot. Wish I could but...thus the questions. Thank you for the links however.
    Last edited by celtica; 12-04-2017 at 12:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    28

    Default All

    The common thread seems to be pick up the iron and the red dot will follow, consequentially speed will follow, correct?

    Thought I was, but adrenaline shows the weakness right?

    So...during dry practice, push out while a) picking up the front sight, then b) allow the dot to follow, c) with enough repetitions the irons will
    disappear. Correct?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Southeast Florida
    Posts
    1,534
    This reminded me of this video, which I haven't seen discussed here--thoughts?


  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,905
    Sure...lets watch that one now. Since mine were so confusing.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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