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  1. #1
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    Apr 2009
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    Default Best Alternative to RMR?

    I tried hard for 3.5 years to like my Trijicon (on an M&P Core), but like every other Trijicon I've used, the reticle "swims in the window" for me. I got to the point where I was about 95% of irons, but never could get the full benefit of the dot as I have with carbines, and even some of my shottys.

    I finally swapped the RMR toward a gen 4 G19 until I can find something that works better for me.

    Looking for something that's more like an Aimpoint dot that would fit on one of my Core adapters.

    Thanks
    In order for the underprivileged and inept to feel adequate, the skilled and capable must be made stupid by decree.

    - Gabe Suarez, 12/13/2011

    “If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.”

    - Justice Clarence Thomas

  2. #2
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    Good luck.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Good luck.
    I was afraid of that.

    Eotech/Aimpoint style dots on a carbine or shotty, the dot is solid in the window and I definitely benefit from it.

    Trijicon reticles swim around in the window and I have to wait for them to settle enough so that I can take the shot, handgun transitions in particular magnify the issue for me.

    Irons it is I guess. I can make HS out to 25yds with irons, so I guess I'll have to live with them and save the dots for carbine/shotty.

    Thanks
    In order for the underprivileged and inept to feel adequate, the skilled and capable must be made stupid by decree.

    - Gabe Suarez, 12/13/2011

    “If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.”

    - Justice Clarence Thomas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigPro09 View Post
    I was afraid of that.

    Eotech/Aimpoint style dots on a carbine or shotty, the dot is solid in the window and I definitely benefit from it.

    Trijicon reticles swim around in the window and I have to wait for them to settle enough so that I can take the shot, handgun transitions in particular magnify the issue for me.

    Irons it is I guess. I can make HS out to 25yds with irons, so I guess I'll have to live with them and save the dots for carbine/shotty.

    Thanks
    Every dot is going to do that...


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  5. #5
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    Have you EVER come to AZ and trained in the red dot school? Either that or maybe the red dot is just not for you.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
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    My goodness...you really have not been reading have you...after all these years -Join Date Apr 2009?

    I imagine a year after my death...nobody will remember a f*cking thing we ever said will they? A sobering thing to realize.

    Simon Bolivar — 'All who have served the Revolution have plowed the sea.'


    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    300
    Quote Originally Posted by SigPro09 View Post
    I tried hard for 3.5 years to like my Trijicon (on an M&P Core), but like every other Trijicon I've used, the reticle "swims in the window" for me.
    I think you'll find that's normal. You would see the same thing with iron sights, especially if you had a gun with a long sight radius. The gouge from the Bullseye shooters (who have been using dots for ~30 years) is to focus on a smooth shot release. Don't try to snatch the shot.

  8. #8
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    What does "swims in the window" mean?
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  9. #9
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    Apr 2009
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    What I experience with a dot on a carbine or shotty is a dot that is solid in the window...very little movement within the window, pretty much like an iron that is much easier to visibly pick up.

    What I experience with a Trijicon RMR or a Trijicon Reflex, is a reticle that seems to sway in the window, e.g. with a snap transition between targets, the reticle sort of overtravels, then comes back to center of the window. I don't experience that with an Eotech or an Aimpoint style red dot. The snap with the hands is true, the pistol and window are aligned to target, but the dot requires a moment to come to center. I don't experience that phenomenon with irons, or when shooting carbine or shotty with a dot.

    I think Gabe got it right, that a red dot on a pistol just isn't for me. They work fine on carbine or shotty for me, but not on a pistol. I didn't know if the Leupold or perhaps other offerings might be a little more like a Eotech or Aimpoint reticle in behavior.

    I'll be fine with the irons, and yes, I've read the red dot white paper...I put in a lot of time on the range, I get what they should be in terms of performance, just not with my eyes I guess.
    In order for the underprivileged and inept to feel adequate, the skilled and capable must be made stupid by decree.

    - Gabe Suarez, 12/13/2011

    “If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.”

    - Justice Clarence Thomas

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    My goodness...you really have not been reading have you...after all these years -Join Date Apr 2009?

    I imagine a year after my death...nobody will remember a f*cking thing we ever said will they? A sobering thing to realize.

    Simon Bolivar — 'All who have served the Revolution have plowed the sea.'


    I have been reading, and I've been shooting, 1000's of rounds.

    As mentioned in other replies, what I experience visually is real, and unique to Trijicon sights. I experience it with their Reflex sights on a carbine. I do not experience it with EoTech or Aimpoint type reticles.

    A guy who was a student in a class I taught had the same sight on the same type of pistol and I saw the same swimming reticle on his dot; he sees the dot as solid in center they way I see the Eotech or Aimpoint type reticle. So I know that the dot I traded wasn't defective, it's probably something in my 50+ year old eyes.

    I asked a question in good faith because I believe in the concept, but I guess my eyes aren't going to permit me to experience it.

    I'd love to experience with a handgun what I experience with a carbine or shotty, I guess it isn't in the cards, but respectfully, don't accuse me of not paying attention or putting the energy into it after 3.5 years of effort with that dot. I did all I could from an effort standpoint, but my eyes wouldn't cooperate.

    I'll keep working at making 25 yd HS with my irons.
    In order for the underprivileged and inept to feel adequate, the skilled and capable must be made stupid by decree.

    - Gabe Suarez, 12/13/2011

    “If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.”

    - Justice Clarence Thomas

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