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  1. #1
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    Default In Regards to the "All the Lumens" Crap

    I keep seeing people who think that more lumens on a flashlight are better. In fact, another training company made a video mocking the idea that you shouldn't have more than 200-300 lumens on a light you're going to use indoors (I'm not going to link to the video, because they certainly don't deserve any extra views).

    Note: For the purpose of this post, I'm concerned with using a light indoors. A light for outdoors is a difference circumstance, which may require different equipment.

    There's a number of problems with this dumb idea of "ALL THE LUMENS!!11!" The biggest is that they test their lights when their eyes are already adjusted to bright light. People normally, in the middle of the afternoon, go into their bathroom and try their 1000 lumen flashlight to see if it'll blind them. Of course, it doesn't, because their pupils are constricted from the brightness of the afternoon. What you need to do instead is sit in a dark room for 45-60 minutes to let your pupils dilate, then try your light. I guarantee that your 1000 lumen light is going to blind you for at least a few seconds. Now ask yourself, "If someone breaks into my home at 3 a.m., are my pupils going to be dilated or constricted?" Obviously, they're most likely going to be dilated. And even if they're already constricted, 150 lumens will still be plenty of light inside a structure. However, if you want to blind yourself for 3-5 seconds and ruin your night vision, feel free to keep using that 1000 lumen light indoors.

    If you'd like more info on this, I recommend taking Greg Nichols' CQB class. He goes into detail why you don't need much light for CQB, and more importantly lets you experience it for yourself in circumstances that are true-to-life.

    Those of you who've taken CQB with Greg, let us know what your experience was when you tried using 500 and 700 lumen lights.
    Last edited by Eric Tull; 05-08-2018 at 09:16 AM.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
    "It's not the will to win that matters--everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." --Paul "Bear" Bryant
    "Love of theory is the root of all evil." --William M. Briggs

    Formerly "ericmt"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Well...when someone begins talking about this sort of thing I have one very simple question...one that any true professional should be able to answer easily.

    "JUST HOW MANY LOW LIGHT GUNFIGHTS HAVE YOU WON SIR?"


    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #3
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    Oct 2010
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    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
    Facebook: SI Instructor Greg Nichols

    #thinkinginviolence
    #tactisexual

    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  4. #4
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    For indoor use, I've found even 60 lumens to be plenty, although I prefer a LITTLE more brightness than that (around 150 to 300). My 500 lumen Fury is just too much indoors. It doesn't let me see anything that I can't see with a 200 lumen light, and it's disorienting to use when I've just woken out of a sound sleep and shine it at a white wall.

    On the other hand, for outdoor use, the more lumens and throw, the better.
    - "When a resolute young fellow steps up to the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers."- Ralph Waldo Emerson

    - We are what we do. You know who someone IS by what they DO. To do is to be...not the other way around.

  5. #5
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    And outdoors...the more lumens also identifies you.

    Some guys think that turning on the lights makes evil run away. In my experience (there is that pesky "E" word again), turning on the light at the wrong time simply lets evil know your position.

    So many lumenophiles have never been shot at in the dark.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    I know we all have our blind spots (no pun intended), but this issue has always struck me as such "common sense"...of COURSE really bright light blinds you. Anyone who has actually, ya know, had to USE a very bright light has experienced.

    But clearly it's not common sense because it's not like there are so many lights that are "just right" even on the market. Sure...give the masses what they want but you'd think they'd at least TRY to educate the public and offer some "reasonable lumen" options.

    More is not always better.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

  7. #7
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    You know...Mr. Lumens might change his mind if a couple of killers that didn't give a flip about bullet accountability sent a magazine each his way when that light came on...

    As well as the filter of real life experience, I will say this...low light gunfighting is not about lumens, its about tactics.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    You know...Mr. Lumens might change his mind if a couple of killers that didn't give a flip about bullet accountability sent a magazine each his way when that light came on...
    Gabe brings up a common error we see from other gun schools. Most trainers engage in "mirroring" and assume that because they wouldn't do X in a gunfight, neither would their opponent. Mr. Lumens wouldn't do a mag dump at someone's light, so he assumes that no one would do that to him. Another example we see is when trainers say that you should announce to a home invader that you have a gun and have called the police. It doesn't occur to them that this ruins your ambush and there's a good chance it will cause the criminal to either burst into your bedroom shooting, or to shoot you through the wall. Most trainers would never shoot through a wall or just randomly shoot into a bedroom, so they assume that hardened felon breaking into your house wouldn't. Obviously, this is a lazy way of thinking that can easily get you killed.
    Suarez International Staff Instructor, Iowa

    "EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST." --Gabe Suarez
    "It's not the will to win that matters--everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters." --Paul "Bear" Bryant
    "Love of theory is the root of all evil." --William M. Briggs

    Formerly "ericmt"

  9. #9
    Is there a particular flashlight model you specifically suggest?

  10. #10
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    Lights are varied and job dependant. A patrol light may not be the same as a detective's light, and a light intended for indoors CQB on a pistol may not have the same attributes as a light on a SWAT rifle. I don't know what to reccomend anymore since everyone is on the Lumens war. I will post a couple of pics of my current lights, and one I might carry if I was working patrol today.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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