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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    69

    Default Question about Co-witnessed iron sights

    I have a Suarez G19 V3 slide with Suppressor sights, awaiting an RMR on backorder. Took it out to the range and shot about 200 rounds through it. Rounds were hitting consistently low, at 10 yards, about 3-4 inches low. Was told by very nice guy at SI that the sight height was necessary for a proper co-witness. I was confused, and still am. If the iron sights are off, what good will they do for a co witness with an RMR.Why even have iron sights if they are that far off?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Highland IL
    Posts
    1,082
    This thread may help: http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...z-sight-height

    Between the frame, slide, barrel, sights and ammo (that’s your biggest variable), that could all stack up to be 3-4” low. Or conversely, high. Doesn’t mean there’s anything functionally wrong with any of those items. Also I believe that, or at least in my experience with several sets of standard and suppressor sights, Suarez sights are designed for a 12:00 sight picture (covering target), so a 6:00 “lollipop” sight picture will indeed hit low.
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    6,695
    3-4" low at 10y is actually decent for Glock iron sights. I've picked up many Glocks that shot worse than that.

    If you are comfortable doing so, you can take a flat steel file to the top of your front sight and just grind it down a bit. I would first experiment with some different brands of ammo, though--you may simply find that the ammo grouped low. Guns are tools, and sometimes they need to be modified. If you file down the front sight, top it off with something so that you prevent rust.

    Another option is to set up the dot in a "lollipop" configuration, where the dot rests above the front post. This puts the dot in the actual point of impact. As long as you remember what your dot looks like in relation to the irons when set up properly, you can remove the RMR and re-zero without any difficulty.

    What you should not do is set up the dot in a position that isn't truly zeroed. If the irons are off, so be it. They are a back-up anyway. But the dot needs to be positioned for a true POA-POI at whatever distance you select for zero.
    Virtute et Armis

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    197
    No disrespect to you but the issue is more likely the shooter and not the sights.
    My boss bought a RMR and slide assembly from SI after seeing mine. I zeroed it for him then he tries telling me the RMR was hitting several inches low. I knew it was impossible so I watched him shoot. Did a ball and dummy drill proving to him he was the problem. He still finds it hard to believe he's the problem.

    You can dip or flinch consistently making it appear that you have a issue with the sights. I've seen it several times and if I'm being honest, done it myself several times.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    69
    Thanks for all the great suggestions, y'all.

    My EDC is a Glock 19 with Trijicon Irons. At 10 yards, I don't shoot 4 inches low.

    IMO, a group 4" low at 10 yards is unsatisfactory for a combat pistol.

    I use a center hold and I get very good results with all my iron sights

    I completely agree with the utility of RDS for head shots at 25 yards, and beyond and I have had success at achieving that objective with RDS.

    I swapped out barrels of the Suarez G19 Slide with my EDC G19 Barrel with the same 4 inch low grouping. The question that remains is there a reason to do this since the intention is to use this with a RDS. Is there a reason to have the iron sights group low because of the RDS? Gabe used to have a sticky which described the process for zeroing your pistol with RDS, can't find it anymore.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,892
    Sights can only be regulated for one specific load. Even if the manufacturer of a handgun with fixed sights took the time to regulate the sights of each gun at the factory (none do), they could only be regulated for one specific load

    Fixed sights can only be set for one distance. Closer or farther away, the point of impact is not the same. If you want the gun to shoot to point of aim at 50 feet or 50 yards, but the fixed sights are regulated for 25 yards, you are out of luck.
    ALL FIXED SIGHTS are a compromise.

    Our sights are designed to give a lower 1/3 cowitness with the Trijicon RMR. With street 115 JHP they shoot zero at 10 yards...with MOST loads. Will they be perfect for you with your particular load? I don't know...but I know that when used as BACK UPS to the RMR...the dot at the top of the front iron sight, or just below the top of the front iron sight, will yield a 10 yard zero as well.

    We can send you a rear sight we make for the MOS which is taller...390 or 400, and you can see if that changes things for you.



    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    4,847
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    No disrespect to you but the issue is more likely the shooter and not the sights.
    My boss bought a RMR and slide assembly from SI after seeing mine. I zeroed it for him then he tries telling me the RMR was hitting several inches low. I knew it was impossible so I watched him shoot. Did a ball and dummy drill proving to him he was the problem. He still finds it hard to believe he's the problem.

    You can dip or flinch consistently making it appear that you have a issue with the sights. I've seen it several times and if I'm being honest, done it myself several times.
    With some people the only thing you can do is film them. Video doesn't lie.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    197
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    With some people the only thing you can do is film them. Video doesn't lie.
    That's great advice.
    Be alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man, be strong. Your every action must be done with love.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Sights can only be regulated for one specific load. Even if the manufacturer of a handgun with fixed sights took the time to regulate the sights of each gun at the factory (none do), they could only be regulated for one specific load

    Fixed sights can only be set for one distance. Closer or farther away, the point of impact is not the same. If you want the gun to shoot to point of aim at 50 feet or 50 yards, but the fixed sights are regulated for 25 yards, you are out of luck.
    ALL FIXED SIGHTS are a compromise.

    Our sights are designed to give a lower 1/3 cowitness with the Trijicon RMR. With street 115 JHP they shoot zero at 10 yards...with MOST loads. Will they be perfect for you with your particular load? I don't know...but I know that when used as BACK UPS to the RMR...the dot at the top of the front iron sight, or just below the top of the front iron sight, will yield a 10 yard zero as well.

    We can send you a rear sight we make for the MOS which is taller...390 or 400, and you can see if that changes things for you.



    Thank you for the explanation,Gabe


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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