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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE New Mexico
    Posts
    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    Are you sure about that? I hear people say stuff like this all the time, and they are often wrong. They heard somebody say it is a felony, or they just assumed it is a felony, or they don't realize the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. I am an advocate of learning the law, even when you intend to break it. Know the limits. Know how far you can push things. And know the penalties. There are consequences for getting caught with a gun some place that you aren't supposed to have one, and there are consequences for not having a gun when you need one. Usually, the consequences for the former are really not as bad as people expect. I don't even pause now before committing misdemeanors. But I usually stop and think for a moment before felonies.

    I would suggest looking up the law in your state. It also may be worth a few bills to buy an hour of an attorney's time to ask him how things seem to work in actual practice. How serious are the local cops? How harsh are the local judges and prosecutors? How much would it really cost you if you got caught? Lawyers are generally very receptive to these conversations. We'd much rather explain the system to someone before they get arrested.
    I know in NM it is a Class 4 felony to carry in a restricted area and there are a lot of restricted areas including any restaurant that serves more than beer/wine, Walmart etc. If I avoided everyplace in this small town that was restricted, I wouldn't be able to go anywhere. I still do what I need to do but I find myself either carrying my 43 primarily for deep concealment or wearing an extra layer of baggy shirts etc to avoid printing. I don't think the Local LEOs would be too hard in me if caught but I don't want to find out how a felony conviction would affect my licensing as a CRNA. But I refuse to be caught empty handed.
    Trump 2016...because f@&k you.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Pineland, USA
    Posts
    140
    A couple of things. In this case an AR was used for both evil and good. Anyone with half a brain should see the tools used were just that. The person behind them determined their use. Blaiming an inanimate object for crimes is ludicrous. Of course that doesn't stop kollectivists and their fucking lies.

    Good point. Lambs just sitting there waiting for the slaughter. God grant me the courage to charge into gunfire and rip the throat out of the motherfucker killing women and children before I die.

    On BA. I know Gabe teaches headshots, but I wanted to offer another point of view. The guys I train with in NC are SF vets, and currently train many clients, including FBI and Border Patrol. Their SOP is to shoot into the ground, center mass, BA or not. The say this is the best technique they've found, in many gunfights, because regardless of what the dude is wearing on his chest, if you mag dump in the same spot you will burn through it. This includes suicide vests. They also add in most of their fights, when the dude is taking rounds, his head is typically moving all over the place, and extremely difficult to hit, so they keep focused center-mass and burn the guy down.

    I am not trying to start any shit here, just sharing an alternative view, for your consideration. Keeping in mind the context here, these are SF dudes, doing CQB in a high threat arena. But it is based on their actual experience. You have to decide if that is applicable to you or not.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    24
    I knowsome will scream, oh no not religion. As I see it we as Christian (or believing) Warriors have responsibilities and I look the scriptures for some dicrection knowing it is not everything God is says as He is still alive and did not write a book and leave many years ago.

    Acts 5:24-29 Peter in context told the authorities that made laws that he must obey God rather than man (when that is what is correct). Hmmm, discuss, debate, argue that one.
    1 Timothy 5:3-8 Timothy was being instructed on how to treat widows (member of his extended family) and in context it is stated that we don't take care of our own family we are worst than an infidel. So does do laws negate this directive.

    Yes I know, obey those who have rule over you, we could go on and on recting scripture. My experience as a pastor, most church-goers have turned their minds off at the church door only believing what the've been told and the holy Spririt could lead them (come upon them) when He wants to; they have made themselves unwilling.

    So we could talk law all day, I think another discussion is what does God require of you personally in life and how do you accomplish it. It may be different for you than me in application, is it pleasing to God.

    Hope this is appropriate for our discussion.
    Psalm 127:1
    Unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain. Unless the LORD watches over the city, the guards stand watch in vain.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    Another big takeaway:

    FIGHT.

    Reports of people huddling in the aisles, waiting as this douche shot babies point-blank.

    It's harsh, but this was ONE dude. ONE muzzle. You can get shot, even fatally, and still stop this guy, even if for some unholy reason you were "unarmed" that day. F*cking die laying on top of this bastard, with your thumbs in his eye sockets, if that's your only option.

    I don't even have kids, but I can't even imagine sitting there waiting to die while someone's shooting them.
    ^^^^THIS^^^^^

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Diz View Post


    On BA. I know Gabe teaches headshots, but I wanted to offer another point of view. The guys I train with in NC are SF vets, and currently train many clients, including FBI and Border Patrol. Their SOP is to shoot into the ground, center mass, BA or not. The say this is the best technique they've found, in many gunfights, because regardless of what the dude is wearing on his chest, if you mag dump in the same spot you will burn through it. This includes suicide vests. They also add in most of their fights, when the dude is taking rounds, his head is typically moving all over the place, and extremely difficult to hit, so they keep focused center-mass and burn the guy down.
    Not sure how you would "burn through " a plate with 9mm.In addition people here with knowledge on the subject have indicated even a pistol round will detonate a vest.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Deep in the heart of Texas
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by valian View Post
    Yes it's a felony, written into the law. I'm a ccw instructor in my state. A new bill that would have stripped the church provision out of the ccw law among other things had the church provision stripped out in a midnight session just before passage at the paranoid urging of pastors and church groups in the past year. So for now still a felony in Ohio unless you have permission from your church.
    In Texas anyway, (irrespective of the mindset to ignore signs) it is perfectly legal to carry (concealed or open) in a church provided the church doesn't post a 30.06 (prohibits concealed carry) or 30.07 (prohibits open carry) sign. I don't know of any churches in our rural Texas area that posts ... that's not to say that some snowflaky individuals haven't suggested that it's a good idea. (SMH)

    Thanks for this post Gabe ... I and my fellow pastors in the area are having a meeting with our county Sheriff (a very good guy) to discuss this issue next week ... I'll be bringing along a few copies of your summary post to pass out.
    RDS Pistol School - June 24-26, 2016, SGF-1 - April 29-30, 2017

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    12,380
    Soooo I'm still stuck on not one weapon, not even a folding Buck knife, not a plastic Bic pen, not grandma's cuticle scissors, apparently NOT one person even tried to fight. No one threw hymnals, no one grabbed anything to fight, really? OK maybe they were afflicted by some sort of die before hurting your killer, maybe they were waiting for divine intervention, maybe they thought if they prayed hard enough he'd stop shooting and beg for forgiveness. Maybe, but no one even tried to run? No one tried to get away? Really?

    Is THAT what has become of Christianity? I just don't "buy it". Come'on not one son or daughter of Texas had any weapon, not one was pissed enough to fight? Not one veteran, Not one guy there with balls bigger than kitty litter, Not one mother willing to fight for her kids? IF that's the case (dubious) it sounds almost cult like?

    I'm an Eastern City boy from a NPE state; but I can assure you somebody wouldda done something, even just running. I just don't get it. That's not the Texas I grew up "knowing", hell its not even the Texas Ive visited as an adult. WTF?

    Is this what we've become? Where are the heroes of the Alamo? Where are the Texas Rangers who turned the tide on indian attackers because they were packing Colt Patterson revolvers instead of single shot muzzle loaders? Has fighting been bred out of us?

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by AFSOCCRNA View Post
    I know in NM it is a Class 4 felony to carry in a restricted area and there are a lot of restricted areas including any restaurant that serves more than beer/wine, Walmart etc. If I avoided everyplace in this small town that was restricted, I wouldn't be able to go anywhere. I still do what I need to do but I find myself either carrying my 43 primarily for deep concealment or wearing an extra layer of baggy shirts etc to avoid printing. I don't think the Local LEOs would be too hard in me if caught but I don't want to find out how a felony conviction would affect my licensing as a CRNA. But I refuse to be caught empty handed.
    Ambulances and hospitals are all NPEs...... as always big boy rules apply.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hale View Post
    I knowsome will scream, oh no not religion. As I see it we as Christian (or believing) Warriors have responsibilities and I look the scriptures for some dicrection knowing it is not everything God is says as He is still alive and did not write a book and leave many years ago.

    Acts 5:24-29 Peter in context told the authorities that made laws that he must obey God rather than man (when that is what is correct). Hmmm, discuss, debate, argue that one.
    1 Timothy 5:3-8 Timothy was being instructed on how to treat widows (member of his extended family) and in context it is stated that we don't take care of our own family we are worst than an infidel. So does do laws negate this directive.

    Yes I know, obey those who have rule over you, we could go on and on recting scripture. My experience as a pastor, most church-goers have turned their minds off at the church door only believing what the've been told and the holy Spririt could lead them (come upon them) when He wants to; they have made themselves unwilling.

    So we could talk law all day, I think another discussion is what does God require of you personally in life and how do you accomplish it. It may be different for you than me in application, is it pleasing to God.

    Hope this is appropriate for our discussion.
    One of my favorites.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,854
    Quote Originally Posted by Diz View Post
    A couple of things. In this case an AR was used for both evil and good. Anyone with half a brain should see the tools used were just that. The person behind them determined their use. Blaiming an inanimate object for crimes is ludicrous. Of course that doesn't stop kollectivists and their fucking lies.

    Good point. Lambs just sitting there waiting for the slaughter. God grant me the courage to charge into gunfire and rip the throat out of the motherfucker killing women and children before I die.

    On BA. I know Gabe teaches headshots, but I wanted to offer another point of view. The guys I train with in NC are SF vets, and currently train many clients, including FBI and Border Patrol. Their SOP is to shoot into the ground, center mass, BA or not. The say this is the best technique they've found, in many gunfights, because regardless of what the dude is wearing on his chest, if you mag dump in the same spot you will burn through it. This includes suicide vests. They also add in most of their fights, when the dude is taking rounds, his head is typically moving all over the place, and extremely difficult to hit, so they keep focused center-mass and burn the guy down.

    I am not trying to start any shit here, just sharing an alternative view, for your consideration. Keeping in mind the context here, these are SF dudes, doing CQB in a high threat arena. But it is based on their actual experience. You have to decide if that is applicable to you or not.
    Well...I am at the point in my life where no shits are given for much of anything. I don't care what SF guys are doing. I will tell you what I am doing...and that is focusing on head shots for 100% of my proactive work. In my own experience, short of hitting a armor wearing bad guy with a 12 ga slug, your pistol ammo will not go through it. And that was with older armor. And yes, that is from personal experience. 99% of the time we are fighting alone and with a pistol as primary. Neither of those things are what your friends are likely doing I expect.

    And as far as heads moving around that is Ayoob bullshit. We do head shots all day long in force on force and that certainly is not slower than real life. I did a neck shot on a bad guy as he was running toward me shooting a revolver...and me on the move no less...so it certainly cannot be that hard can it. Specially if us lowly novices can do it.

    Additionally is the IED deal. I cannot think that your friends will shoot into an IED when inside the room with the IED wearer. The ones recovered here in the US have been very similar...shoot them and they go off. Maybe they are better at the robustness in the ME.

    So...do whateverthehellyouwanttodo. I don't care.

    Me...head shorts all day long.
    Last edited by Gabriel Suarez; 11-09-2017 at 07:39 AM.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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