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  1. #1
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    Feb 2011
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    Default Sutherland Springs Facts & Lessons Learned

    I want to suggest a separate thread for discussion of the things we know from this event and what lessons to take away, now that details are starting to come out.

    Salient points so far:
    • Shooter visited the site 5 days prior.
      • This was probably a reconnaissance
      • Alternatively, he may not have decided to attack yet and was working up to it

    • Shooter had sent threatening texts to his mother-in-law prior
    • Shooter posted on FB that he was not thinking clearly and had a headache
    • Shooter did not show up for work on Saturday and Sunday due to headache
    • Shooter was wearing body armor (type unknown) and a helmet
    • Bystander who intervened was unprepared practically (no mag, barefoot), but was mentally ready to go anyway


    Looking forward to other thoughts from the Tribe.
    Armed Puritan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Snohomish County, WA
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    Not sure if this would be the correct thread to ask. Feel free to delete.

    If he had made it to the church while the shooter was still shooting inside, what would have been the best way to enter to stop the killings?
    The government selectively enforces laws, so I selectively follow them.

    RGF-3: December 2014
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,074
    I would add:
    - Shooter had been convicted of Domestic Violence to include brutal attack on infant stepson
    - Shooter had been committed involuntarily to a mental health facility (from which he escaped)
    - Shooter had smuggled weapons onto base where he worked (related to conflicts he had been having with superior officers)
    - Shooter had LE encounter based on severe animal cruelty
    - Shooter had multiple instances of sexual assault including one for which he had been under investigation but was discontinued after he moved to a different jurisdiction
    - Air Force failed to enter DV conviction in NICS database

    This all adds up to show that "institutional triggers" which should have made sure this loser was incarcerated and denied the ability to ever legally procure or possess a firearm FAILED.

    We're on our own, this loser isn't the only animal which is roaming about that fits the profile, and there is no institutional solution (think legislation) that's going to make us safe from someone like this.

    Like many mass shooters, while some have an ideology that drives them, he appears like he was simply criminally evil.

    We need to be prepared to meet violence with overwhelming violence, and to do so with efficiency and great skill.

    That ability requires training, dedication, and a mind/soul that acknowledges the realities of the world we live in.
    In order for the underprivileged and inept to feel adequate, the skilled and capable must be made stupid by decree.

    - Gabe Suarez, 12/13/2011

    “If a broad ban on firearms can be upheld based on conjecture that the public might feel safer (while being no safer at all), then the Second Amendment guarantees nothing.”

    - Justice Clarence Thomas

  4. #4
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    In liberal occupied Amerika, WA state
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    Always have mags for all of your firearms loaded and ready to go.
    Never walk around the house barefoot.

    Is 5.56 enough? Don't know what kind of ammo Willeford used, but he hit the shooter in the side between the kevlar sections of his vest. Would a 55gr FMJ fail like this vs. say a 62gr Fusion or 77gr OTP? [Genuinely curious].
    Matt
    John 14:6
    My Hero DID walk on water!

    IRS = KGB

    When your enemy views death as a promotion, you know you are in for a fight.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    MINE

    Quote Originally Posted by TFA303 View Post
    • Shooter visited the site 5 days prior.
      • This was probably a reconnaissance
      • Alternatively, he may not have decided to attack yet and was working up to it


    MINE: HAVE PASSIVE COUNTER SURVEILLANCE IN EFFECT AT ALL TIMES. AT HQ AND HOME WE HAVE CAMERAS AND ALSO GAME CAMERAS. WLITOW (WE LIVE IN TIME OF WAR). ANYONE COMING BY DOING SURVEILLANCE IS JUST THAT.




    • Shooter had sent threatening texts to his mother-in-law prior


    I BET THE MOTHER IN LAW IGNORED THEM. WLITOW - TAKE EVERYTHING AT FACE VALUE.



    • Shooter posted on FB that he was not thinking clearly and had a headache
    • Shooter did not show up for work on Saturday and Sunday due to headache


    MEH...NOT MUCH TO DO THERE.



    • Shooter was wearing body armor (type unknown) and a helmet


    THE FACE....THE FACE...RUN UP AND EMPTY THE MAGAZINE INTO HIS FACE, HIS EAR, WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE....CENTER OF MASS IS FOR FOOLS




    • Bystander who intervened was unprepared practically (no mag, barefoot), but was mentally ready to go anyway'


    WAS HE COURAGEOUS? WITHOUT A DOUBT...BUT OTHER THAN THAT, HARDLY AN EXAMPLE OF ANYTHING ELSE. LIKE THE SAMURAI...ALWAYS BE ARMED...ALWAYS BE READY TO MOVE....IF BAREFOOT AT HOME HAVE SHOES NEARBY...ALL WEAPONS LOADED. I SUSPECT THE "SAFE" STATUS OF HIS RIFLE WAS NRA PROGRAMMING.


    Looking forward to other thoughts from the Tribe.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 336Whiskey View Post
    Always have mags for all of your firearms loaded and ready to go.
    Never walk around the house barefoot.

    Is 5.56 enough? Don't know what kind of ammo Willeford used, but he hit the shooter in the side between the kevlar sections of his vest. Would a 55gr FMJ fail like this vs. say a 62gr Fusion or 77gr OTP? [Genuinely curious].
    I think this will get people all fuzzy about rifles now, but the use of a rifle in this case was happenstance. It all worked out, but the pistol is still the order of the day here. This is where surgical capability with the weapon is crucial.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  7. #7
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    Does anyone know the distances involved between the various points yet?
    Geek Warlord
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by 336Whiskey View Post
    Always have mags for all of your firearms loaded and ready to go.
    Never walk around the house barefoot.

    Is 5.56 enough? Don't know what kind of ammo Willeford used, but he hit the shooter in the side between the kevlar sections of his vest. Would a 55gr FMJ fail like this vs. say a 62gr Fusion or 77gr OTP? [Genuinely curious].
    I'm sure others might disagree, but:

    Toughen your damn feet, knuckles, etc on the hot pavement, sand and hardpack. If you find yourself without shoes, then you're not handicapped.

    Shoot .308/7.62 (+++) if you're shooting/deploying from your house to the running distance neighborhood...why f**k with smaller, more portable weapons in that situation?
    ~~~

    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "It is good to be strong, but better to know how to use it."
    - Jimmy H. Woo (Chin Siu Dek)

    "I spent my whole life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless. But not men." - Vito Corleone

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    Chattanooga, TN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    Does anyone know the distances involved between the various points yet?
    According to the Crowder interview, the distance of the engagement was 20 yards.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Rogal Dorn; 11-08-2017 at 11:54 AM.
    Because the only thing I hate more than hippie and neo-liberal fascists and anarchists are the hypocrite fat cat suits they eventually grow up to become.-John Casey

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    572
    Not clear to me if, or how well, the truck driver and the resident knew each other beforehand but would you allow yourself to get flagged down by a barefoot guy holding a rifle outside a church that had just been shot up?

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