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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Highland IL
    Posts
    1,083
    Quote Originally Posted by WOLF220 View Post

    It it still amazes me some people take say a basic pistol class and believe they are prepared for the potential fight of their lives.

    There is also the Dunning-Kruger effect.....


    It's the illusion of training. I'm not knocking good instructors, particularly the ones on this forum, because there's still only so much you can teach total noobs in 8 or 16 hours. If I take one Spanish class, it'd be pretty obvious that I still don't know Spanish very well at all. But you take one CHL class and there's nothing to measure it against. So the majority can go on believing they now have all the training they'll ever need because it's very unlikely they'll ever even have to use it, and if they do and it wasn't up to snuff the (lack of) training doesn't get blamed, it's just "bad luck".
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
    Posts
    5,882
    A handgun carry permit is to self defense what a drivers license is to driving a vehicle. It merely certifies that the state deems you as having met the bare minimum of safe gun handling and legal knowledge ENOUGH for the state to allow you to carry a gun in public. It means NOTHING else. A drivers license is no proof of driving skill and barely proof of driving education. It is merely proof that you know enough to handle the car safely enough to drive it on public roads. The CCW or HCP or whatever your state calls it is essentially the same. It is proof that you have proven you are safe enough and have the bare minimum of skill that the state allows people to carry a gun in public with. The rest is up to you.....
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    Tennessee State Handgun Carry Permit Instructor
    Glock Factory Certified Armorer
    IDPA Master Class SSP, ESP,CDP, CCP, BUG
    Gung Ho Chuan Association

    TRAIN with me....https://suarezinternational.com/sear...h_query=harris

    Fundamentalist Christian Man at Arms

    AKA - CRUEL HAND LUKE

    Joel 3:10 - Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruning hooks into spears; train even your weaklings to be warriors.

    Through HIS power I can walk on water..IF I just have the faith and courage to get out of the boat.

    A good man who's done a couple of bad things along the way....

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    8,925
    It should be obvious that CCW “training” was created to keep non-gun people happy.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD

    DISCIPLINA EST LIBERTATEM
    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO


    T
    WOTU Since 2012


  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    20
    Couldn't agree more! Why I signed up for Gabe's class in Houston and why I'll be back for more from you!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,847
    This could be an article...and perhaps it will. Its not CCW perse that has failed but rather the mental attitude of Americans. And to define where that failure is. It is not that there are more people carrying guns now. The failure is in the attitude of minimalism...or cheapness...and of low dedication. Look at the image of the dude with the pistol in Winston's post in the Barbell section. That typifies not only what is wrong with the CCW culture but also what is wrong with America to a degree. Add to that the fear-monging, liability crowd from the Northeast and you get the complete picture. Everyone self-selects...like the guy in the pic who I am sure thinks he is ready for anything.

    The western world...Christendom is what they used to call it before the era of pussyhats and pussy males...is at war. We are at war with the jihadists, and with the communists (who will be acting out their nefarious ideals soon enough), and quite right, with evil itself that walks the earth in the form of people like Paddock, and Lanza, and Cho, and others. And in that war we are all soldiers...and our battle may come at any time. Some can shirk that reality as a true inconvenient truth...not wanting tolet the terrorists win...not wanting to live like that...wanting the authorities to make it right and safe...love everyone...and all of that drug-induced, libo-comm thinking. But us...we do not ignore reality...we use it a basis for reality based thinking and actions.

    And having done so, we leave the super convenient Kel-tec at home and carry the Glock, or SIG, or whatever with enough ammunition to start, stay in, and end the fight (Currently I am wearing a Suarez Glock 17, with 83 rounds in magazines). And we do not use excuses to avoid going through our day in thus manner. Some people live in oppressed lands because they like pizza or listening to the surf. All I can do is shrug and say that nothing is free. And that being what it is, will bet one can still manage to have a pistol of compromise on their person should the battle come to them on one of those perfect days.

    We live in a time of war. There are those who smile when I say that as much as those who cringe. Which are you?
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Payne View Post
    Ok, in Texas it's a License to Carry, but I'm sure the term CCW applies to everyone who carries a gun. So how has the CCW failed us?

    The CCW community has failed because of mindset, training, and tools.

    The Mindset is strictly DEFENSIVE

    The Training is to the LOWEST common denominator

    The Tools are INADEQUATE
    We do not have open carry here-but the same dynamic exists here.
    Ive been in a room where a gentleman wants to show his Sig (his EDC for 2 years)to some one else-but did not know how to safe the weapon.
    I left that room immediately

    The process to attain a personal 'CCW permit' here is as irrelevant to the reality of carrying any weapon as a fish is to a 69 Chevy.

    The process for private security is worse-since the application is wider and involves members of the public.So new officers are relatively less prepared.


    IT was posted above- human nature is to do as little as possible...and in this case dealing with the possibility of life and death situations probably isnt pleasant.

    However it is not the states responsibility to train me up to the appropriate level-its mine.

    success is for those that make it over the top.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,384
    Something tells me that this mentality is nothing new:

    “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”
    Heraclitus


    I keep this quote posted at my desk and look at it every day.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    12,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Harris View Post
    A handgun carry permit is to self defense what a drivers license is to driving a vehicle. It merely certifies that the state deems you as having met the bare minimum of safe gun handling and legal knowledge ENOUGH for the state to allow you to carry a gun in public. It means NOTHING else. A drivers license is no proof of driving skill and barely proof of driving education. It is merely proof that you know enough to handle the car safely enough to drive it on public roads. The CCW or HCP or whatever your state calls it is essentially the same. It is proof that you have proven you are safe enough and have the bare minimum of skill that the state allows people to carry a gun in public with. The rest is up to you.....
    EXACTLY

    ...and paid the TAX

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,334
    People are lazy, and most Americans have lived a life of more luxury than we even know we have. It's easy for soft people to get by here and now. That gives the "average CCW guy" a really low bar to jump over that will let him think of himself as being oh so much better.

    As a counter point, look at some of what we see posted by members from South Africa. Bad training, flabby trainers and low quality guns are not solely an American phenomenon.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,728
    "Its not CCW perse that has failed but rather the mental attitude of Americans. And to define where that failure is. It is not that there are more people carrying guns now. The failure is in the attitude of minimalism...or cheapness...and of low dedication." Gabe

    I try to be the glass is half full type of guy and many days that is a challenge. What we are starting to see is "evolution" in action. Part of that requires that the weaker species adapt or it becomes extinct because of the stronger species thriving. As a Christian I pause to use an evolution analogy, but it is easily understood and fits here.

    Those of us six decades + in age can remember days when few men were "legally" carrying a gun. I became a cop in 1976. In Pennsylvania we were then a "may issue" state. CCW permits issued by the sheriff in my county had a police reference line on the application. In my little Mayberry most cops signed off on applications of respectable men; that was not the case in most urban counties. One of my law professors used the adage that a Conservative was nothing but a former Liberal who had been mugged. My Choirboy cop days saw the coming of age of the first generation of LBJ's Great Society. It caused boys to be raised in homes without a father. We now have the third generation of boys raised in homes with single women heading them. The societal damage has probably become irreversible. In the slow evolution of political life, enough Liberals did get mugged and we have largely become a nation of "shall issue", open carry or constitutional carry states. The third generation of demon spawn are no better than the welfare sucking mothers and grandmothers from which they came. Be it drugs/crime or crime/drugs folks started to see a gun as a matter of survival; for many it is like the fire extinguisher in the kitchen, just there, not needed, not trained with, and some need the directions to know how it works.

    Dirtbags are not in short supply. The sometimes reluctant guys, like the ones who took out the church gunman, will step up. Guys that took the first steps of getting and carrying a gun will assess what happened in Texas. They will look into the mirror and take steps to do better. Guys like the fellow in the scooter will face whatever evolution has in store. I have to agree with Edelweiss that we become better men of our own merit; I see nothing positive for me becoming better by making a mockery of the guy on the scooter.

    Thoughts at large,
    Choirboy
    Last edited by choirboy; 11-09-2017 at 05:51 PM.

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