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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Beyond The Wall
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertGuy View Post
    That's a great way of describing the training for situations based on parking lots, riots, or other public encounter. What about home/property? Do the percentages change?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Palmer, Alaska
    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyblake View Post
    What are you considering real rifle cartridges?
    The old school crowd would point to 7.62x51. I included "intermediate cartridges" because that technically includes 5.56x45, 7.62x39, etc. I would throw .300 BLK in there, too, but only in a supersonic load--in fact, only in certain supersonic loads. These rounds will all easily cover 400m, even in a short-barrel configuration. I've seen Brent Yamamoto ring steel at 285y with a .357 Sig, but I still wouldn't classify any pistol as a 300m gun. A good shooter can use a pistol for covering fire at 200m. That same shooter should be able to make head shots at that range with a rifle sporting a magnified optic. There are so many cartridges, and so many loads, that it's cumbersome to create a comprehensive list. But a .357 Sig, despite having pretty substantial reach, is not a rifle cartridge, even if it is in a PCC. Nor is 5.7x28.
    Virtute et Armis

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Western WA
    Totally agree that 357 Sig doesn't qualify as a rifle cartridge.

    But it does make a hell of a stocked PDW, especially with a 6" barrel.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Made it to Free America
    Quote Originally Posted by LawDog View Post
    The reality of our world is that the pistol is the gun you will have in a fight. So focusing your training on the pistol makes sense. That said, there is another reality: the pistol will not do what a rifle can do. It's worth an investment of time and money to set up a rifle, even if you just set it aside for an event that is less likely than a polar shift. Plus, rifles are fun. Work comes first, but guns can still be used for play.

    A rifle, chambered in a real rifle cartridge (including the so-called "intermediate" cartridges), with a 1-4/6/8x optic is a very versatile tool, even if you can't carry it AIWB. The Pistol Caliber Carbine is an interesting compromise, and may be well suited to your environment, but is not a substitute for a real rifle. If you've never experienced the performance, seek out an RMR'ed G34/35. They approach the performance of a PCC, but still fit in a holster.
    Lotta truth there....and all of is still true "only" on a 25yd range BECAUSE when the time comes for REAL shooting you wont be on a range. Sure practice at that range; but take some classes too and remember that info when you go back to the range AND put it into real practice when you need it in real life

  5. #25
    The only thing I would add to what has already been posted is that whatever guns you have are just tools and you should be competent with any of them. Also important if you must pick up someone else's piece. I still practice with revolvers from the old days as well. I am fortunate that I can just step out to my own 25 yard (100 yard too, but rarely used) range and do so several times a week. The main change I have made in my practice are focusing on head shots as per Gabe. If you can do that center mass shots are easy depending on the situation. --jw

  6. #26
    Interesting that since I started this thread we had the Sutherland Springs church shooting, which further drives home the advantage of the concealed service pistol over the carbine.

    I've said it before and as time passes it sounds less crazy, but I wish the trend for every gun guy to try and emulate some SEAL/PMC "look" with the chest rig and FDE carbine would completely fade away, to be eclipsed by a whole society of skilled concealed service pistol shooters.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Highland IL
    I'm in the exact same situation as OP. Live on 2 acres in a semi-rural area, with absolutely zero chance of Antifa etc blocking the back roads on the way here. That's a big plus, but part of "semi" rural means it's built up just enough around there I can't just go find a place to shoot. Gun clubs are fine for sighting in, but all the Fudd rules make it useless beyond that.

    Im not saying to do what I do, but I have one AR and five Glocks, if that tells you what my priorities are.
    "Charles, I shan't trust you aboard my ship, unless I carry you a prisoner; for I shall have you plotting with my men, knock me on the head and run away with my ship a-pirating."

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gabe’s breakdown of training time is spot on for “gun” training time.

    I suggest that if you look at total “martial” training time, it breaks down like this:

    80% combatives (MMA, BJJ, Krav, weapons of opportunity, etc.), strength, and conditioning
    17% pistol (including dry work)
    2% shotgun
    1% rifle

    The point being to focus on fighting first, combatives solidifying the mindset through practice/sparring, and it definitely will focus on your physical attributes to help you stay in shape.

    From a risk perspective:

    You’re most likely to die from poor health. Combatives/fitness solves that.

    Chances are you’ll never be in a gun fight, but if you are, it will be in this order of likelihood: thug in the dark parking lot, home burglary, commie rioters, jihadist/nihilist mass shooter, zombie redneck looters in a “no rule of law” scenario.

    That “thug in the parking lot” will definitely involve some sort of combatives or running away, but may or may not involve you pulling a gun.

    As you progress down that list, it takes quite a while before you reach rifle territory.

    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO

    WOTU Since 2012

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Southeast United States
    In case it wasn't mentioned, there is the Glock PDW option. In recent months I've become a huge fan of the RMR'd Glock with the Endo/Shockwave combo, especially for home protection and traveling. I keep mine in an easy to access place in the house, and I pack it in a messenger-style bag when I go roaming about in the car. I still keep my Benelli handy at home, but the PDW has been getting more range time and I feel pretty good about it as a "go to" under stress. As noted by others on this forum, tight headshots are the norm with the braced pistol, especially when using an RMR. It's light, sturdy, stable, quick, recoil is a yawn and the manual of arms is a snap. Oh, and it's inexpensive compared to building or buying a pistol caliber carbine. Gabe carries everything you need on his site, by the way.

    The way I look at it, my handguns are my primary and my PDW and long guns are my backup, in that order. Except for time of war, I've only broken out my rifles when we had a major tri-county blackout a few winters back. Nothing came of it, which shows how boring my life has been as of late.
    Redneck Zen
    "Be careful what you get good at."

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2012
    I say decertify! More pistols than anything but stock in guns has ALWAYS been a winner!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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