updated quality AKs and also the modern ARs

[barnetmill]

So have we left the modern refined AK that costs too much and is a PITA to set up properly now?
Have you arrived at the same conclusions that I did in 2012?

Well not .223 or .300 blk out, but for 6.5 I am arriving at that conclusion. I really want to look at this more since the AR system has been successfully developed to work with that round. Mags are available, accurate ammo is out there, and even inexpensive training ammo is out there.

The major glitch, apparently the bolt failure problem was due to copy cats that did not do their homework. There is at least one other choice out there, but the AR system relative to parts, gunsmithing knowledge, and distribution is now the logical choice for 6.5 g. Price is not the issue here since a good 6.5 g AR will cost a lot also. Right now I have to do a lot more reading.

[ronlassit]

So have we left the modern refined AK that costs too much and is a PITA to set up properly now?
Have you arrived at the same conclusions that I did in 2012?

I think the AK system has reached the end of its development, as there is little that can be done with the original design to make it adaptable, and more accurate. It is much more costly to render an AK in a caliber such as 6.5 Grendel, because a lot of the custom work necessary. I also believe there are systems superior to the AR platform, but they are not well known and are expensive in their own right. The Robinson Armament XCR is one example. I bought one many years ago and it has proven to be an excellent rifle. The weapon is now much more refined, and offers, in my opinion, a superior system. The Daewoo K2 is another system that I believe superior to the standard AR. It really surprises me that no one has reintroduced it in some variation into the market. If I were going to obtain a 6.5 Grendel and money is no object, I'd seriously consider the XCR. You can order it in many variations, and the design has been around long enough to have proven itself. Down side is you're going to spend a little over $2000 to do it. You can also spend another $600 or so and buy another caliber change kit and extend the options, which would put it in the price range of the SCAR. Back to the AK's, I still have two of them, a Romanian I bought over 20-odd years ago that shot better than the more costly ones, and a true Hungarian AMD-65. I keep them around just because I had too much ammo to abandon the system. I think I still have an unopened crate of East German ammo as well as a few cans of Chinese hanging around.

[barnetmill]

I think the AK system has reached the end of its development, as there is little that can be done with the original design to make it adaptable, and more accurate. It is much more costly to render an AK in a caliber such as 6.5 Grendel, because a lot of the custom work necessary. I also believe there are systems superior to the AR platform, but they are not well known and are expensive in their own right. The Robinson Armament XCR is one example. I bought one many years ago and it has proven to be an excellent rifle. The weapon is now much more refined, and offers, in my opinion, a superior system. The Daewoo K2 is another system that I believe superior to the standard AR. It really surprises me that no one has reintroduced it in some variation into the market. If I were going to obtain a 6.5 Grendel and money is no object, I'd seriously consider the XCR. You can order it in many variations, and the design has been around long enough to have proven itself. Down side is you're going to spend a little over $2000 to do it. You can also spend another $600 or so and buy another caliber change kit and extend the options, which would put it in the price range of the SCAR. Back to the AK's, I still have two of them, a Romanian I bought over 20-odd years ago that shot better than the more costly ones, and a true Hungarian AMD-65. I keep them around just because I had too much ammo to abandon the system. I think I still have an unopened crate of East German ammo as well as a few cans of Chinese hanging around.

I would only consider weapons for which parts are and will always be readily available here in the US. That also includes accessories of all sorts. The AR fulfills this the best and the AK is a somewhat distant 2nd place. I am sure there are betters systems around and Alexander Arms even makes a proprietary design that is available for the 6.5 g. The other systems do not offer any resounding advantage over the AR. This is same reasoning why I use glocks. There are better designs around then the glock, but not the availability of parts and gunsmithing knowledge.

Not so hard to set up or render an AK in 6.5 g.
It requires from what I understand a new magazine and perhaps tuning or something to the gas system if even that. The biggie is the bolt for the AR system. The dimensions of the AK bolt fine as is from what i understand since this 6.5 is x 39 and based on modifications of the 7.62x39. The 6.5 grendel is a long range cartridge that is best served by guns shooting close to moa groups. If made right the AK might get there, but that is not happening right now. Also the russians are terrible at providing magazines for their guns. the AR mags in 6.5 in various capacities are out there. Alexandria Arms has an entry level AR in 6.5 for about $1200. Might need another $800 or more to get it set up. But that is not so expensive for what you are getting. If you go super cheap on an AR 6.5 you might as well get the vepr for at least the vepr will likely go bang which might not be true for a super cheap AR.
Photo of 6.5 vepr.

[callmebubba]

If you go super cheap on an AR 6.5 you might as well get the vepr for at least the vepr will likely go bang which might not be true for a super cheap AR.

You still use the argument of the unreliable AR. If you don't like them, that's one thing. But I've shot literally dozens of $5-800 ARs with the cheapest ammo money can buy and have only ever seen one that legitimately didn't work (and it was a S&W that everyone says is good to go). They weren't MOA accurate but they were "minute of man" even at reasonably long ranges, and certainly "went bang."

[barnetmill]

You still use the argument of the unreliable AR. If you don't like them, that's one thing. But I've shot literally dozens of $5-800 ARs with the cheapest ammo money can buy and have only ever seen one that legitimately didn't work (and it was a S&W that everyone says is good to go). They weren't MOA accurate but they were "minute of man" even at reasonably long ranges, and certainly "went bang."

I did read of one report of an AR barrel that had a bad chamber and had to go back for replacement. This AR stainless steel barrel's chamber was not properly finished. Do not expect better performance from a cheaply and poorly made AR or any gun for that matter than you would from a cheaply made AK.

If you expect optimum performance, do not buy poorly made guns. The beauty of the AR is with few tools that a major component like a barrel can in theory be readily replaced. On the 6.5 g there are differing dimensions used for the chamber and bolt by different manufactures according to the chart below. My thinking is to go a well known manufacturer for 6.5 ARs and buy from them. Pay the extra to get it done right.

1.png

2a.png

[Scott Vandiver]

would only consider weapons for which parts are and will always be readily available here in the US. That also includes accessories of all sorts. The AR fulfills this the best and the AK is a somewhat distant 2nd place. I am sure there are betters systems around and Alexander Arms even makes a proprietary design that is available for the 6.5 g. The other systems do not offer any resounding advantage over the AR. This is same reasoning why I use glocks. There are better designs around then the glock, but not the availability of parts and gunsmithing knowledge.

Not so hard to set up or render an AK in 6.5 g.
It requires from what I understand a new magazine and perhaps tuning or something to the gas system if even that. The biggie is the bolt for the AR system. The dimensions of the AK bolt fine as is from what i understand since this 6.5 is x 39 and based on modifications of the 7.62x39. The 6.5 grendel is a long range cartridge that is best served by guns shooting close to moa groups. If made right the AK might get there, but that is not happening right now. Also the russians are terrible at providing magazines for their guns. the AR mags in 6.5 in various capacities are out there. Alexandria Arms has an entry level AR in 6.5 for about $1200. Might need another $800 or more to get it set up. But that is not so expensive for what you are getting. If you go super cheap on an AR 6.5 you might as well get the vepr for at least the vepr will likely go bang which might not be true for a super cheap AR.
Photo of 6.5 vepr.

Look closely that magazine It is loded with 762x39. Who in the world would put a Stiener scope on a AK? The mount is so bad they might as well put a tasco on it. The weapon system must be complete that includes ammo gun optics and the mount: as well as the shooter

[barnetmill]

Look closely that magazine It is loded with 762x39. Who in the world would put a Stiener scope on a AK? The mount is so bad they might as well put a tasco on it. The weapon system must be complete that includes ammo gun optics and the mount: as well as the shooter

The picture was labeled as 6.5. The magazine is not that of 7.62x39 that I use on my AKs. I can not say much about the ammo and your eye is better than mine relative to seeing if that projectile is 6.5 or 7.62. The 6.5 g case has a less case taper and needs a straighter magazine which is consistent with the mag that is in that gun
About the scope I have no idea. My ak has an aim point on it that co-witnesses with the irons.
6.5


7.62

[barnetmill]

Here is what is labeled as a vepr 7.62x39 from K-Var. Note how the magazine is not straight. For the 6.5 they are asking 940 dollars which is ridiculous.