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  1. #1
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    Default updated quality AKs and also the modern ARs

    I have been watching some of the rifle dynamic posts on quality AKs with better muzzle breaks, barrels, and mounting for after market optics. I am also comparing this to what the AR in updated form can do. I am fairly convinced for my purposes the 5.56 is not the round for me for long range. If I go AR I want a 6.5 mm chambering. For the AK for longer range shots there is I think there too much drop for the 7.62x39 for long range shooting. If I spend a lot of money for a good AK I would want it in 6.5 grendal.

    Video clip below discusses modernizing the AK. The AR is the cheaper easy button for a quality rifle. With its buffer it offers better recoil control and target quality triggers are available. For super small groups it is superior. But even with the longer barrels at longer ranges the energy of the 5.56 nato is in the realm of a 9 mm pistol. If the shorter barrels are used that are so much in vogue the energy and velocity will be accordingly reduced.
    So if longer ranges are important something other than the 5.56 is needed.

    these are just my thoughts and they can certainly change as I learn more.

    http://www.chuckhawks.com/definitive...ce_caliber.htm Velocity in feet-per-second (Muzzle, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards)
    5.56mm NATO (63 grain): 3200, 2862, 2521, 2198, 1900, 1612
    Kinetic Energy in Ft-Pounds (Muzzle, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 yards)

    5.56mm NATO (63 grains @ 3200 FPS): 1432, 1146, 889, 676, 505, 364




    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  2. #2
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    Is the goal to run an AK...or to have a good rifle you can use for a specific purpose? Define the job...find a tool for that job.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
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    194
    I think I would choose a cartridge similar to the 6x47 Lapua. The accuracy of the cartridge itself is unquestionable, and it can launch a 100gr bullet over 3000fps. I think a bullet in the 85-90gr. area would work well for most tactical situations, and the cartridge is capable out to 1000. I think it would be a good compromise that would allow accuracy, longer range engagement capability, and still allow the weapon to be controlled in situations where FA/ burst is needed. I feel one of the greatest limiting factors in the AK platform has always been ammo quality. I have seen some guns run on par with the AR platform( around2MOA) with good handloaded ammo.
    Last edited by ronlassit; 09-28-2017 at 07:38 AM.

  4. #4
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    Have a look at this thread Tell Me I'm Crazy: The 6.5 Grendel Pistol

    A 12.5" Grendel pistol is inherently more accurate than an AK and has much better ballistic performance than either a 16" 7.62x39 AK or a 16" 5.56 or 300 BLK AR. It's also shorter and handier than either...basically an 800 yard, legally-concealable pistol. If you want even better performance, get a longer one. All the early arguments against the Grendel are gone now. The ammo is everywhere. Heck, Wolf even makes cheap, crappy ammo if you want to have a more AK-like accuracy experience...you know...for the man who wants everything, a high-end precision rifle and paper-plate sized groups. LOL

    If you want a close-up battle carbine, a good AK or 5.56 or 300 BLK AR will do the job just fine. An AR will be much less hassle to gussy up and will be more accurate.

    If you want a long reacher that still has some good Ft-Lbs at the end of the flight but don't want a .308 or Creedmoor, get a Grendel AR (no reason to go through the hassle of making an AK ideal for that kind of work just so you could have a lower-capacity magazine).

    If you want a true "Jack of all trades", get a 12.5" Grendel pistol.

    Doc
    Last edited by DogDoc; 09-28-2017 at 10:16 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    Have a look at this thread Tell Me I'm Crazy: The 6.5 Grendel Pistol

    A 12.5" Grendel pistol is inherently more accurate than an AK and has much better ballistic performance than either a 16" 7.62x39 AK or a 16" 5.56 or 300 BLK AR. It's also shorter and handier than either...basically an 800 yard, legally-concealable pistol. If you want even better performance, get a longer one. All the early arguments against the Grendel are gone now. The ammo is everywhere. Heck, Wolf even makes cheap, crappy ammo if you want to have a more AK-like accuracy experience...you know...for the man who wants everything, a high-end precision rifle and paper-plate sized groups. LOL

    If you want a close-up battle carbine, a good AK or 5.56 or 300 BLK AR will do the job just fine. An AR will be much less hassle to gussy up and will be more accurate.

    If you want a long reacher that still has some good Ft-Lbs at the end of the flight but don't want a .308 or Creedmoor, get a Grendel AR (no reason to go through the hassle of making an AK ideal for that kind of work just so you could have a lower-capacity magazine).

    If you want a true "Jack of all trades", get a 12.5" Grendel pistol.

    Doc
    I am interested in the Grendal ARs. What parts on them are not interchangeable with the basic AR15? I assume the stripped bolt and magazines are not.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    I am interested in the Grendal ARs. What parts on them are not interchangeable with the basic AR15? I assume the stripped bolt and magazines are not.
    Bolt, barrel and Mag. If you had an AR lower with an upper in another caliber, just switch uppers and swap the mag. If you want to convert an upper, swap barrels and buy a new BCG.

    Doc
    Wanna Learn about Medicinal Herbs & Edible Plants?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    Bolt, barrel and Mag. If you had an AR lower with an upper in another caliber, just switch uppers and swap the mag. If you want to convert an upper, swap barrels and buy a new BCG.

    Doc
    It really does seem that the AR is the easy button for the 6.5 grendel.
    I am familiar with the AR15 mechanically, but I am not up on quality manufacturers.
    I have not done anything with ARs in the last 20 years.

    Can anyone here give me some brand names for complete quality 6.5 mm grendel uppers?

    I just checked SI and did not see any complete uppers.

    The big thing for the AR owing civilian is its modularity and not needing gunsmithing tooling and skills for most things with it.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    Have a look at this thread Tell Me I'm Crazy: The 6.5 Grendel Pistol


    Doc
    That one was an eye-opener.

  9. #9
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    I looked at the referenced WT a thread nd found out that many technical answers are available on the 6.5 grendel forum which I just joined.

    There seems to be a lot of wisdom in a 6.5 G AR. Going cheap will get you a crappy bolt that may break or not give good functioning with steel case ammo. The 6.5 ARs are a known, proved item in contrast to the improved AK.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    So have we left the modern refined AK that costs too much and is a PITA to set up properly now?
    Have you arrived at the same conclusions that I did in 2012?
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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