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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    44,861
    I have been out for some time. But back in the day...and now...every unknown is a potential adversary. And please don't bring out the 99 year old lady that is also a ninja...there is some common sense involved which perhaps the millenials do not have, having been denied the concept of critical analysis and decision making in their tender young lives.

    Every call I went on, my mind set was "this is going to possibly be a shooting...get your mind right and get ready". De-escalation was always possible, and likely done...but that is more easily done than the reverse.
    Many head-in-rectum, officer friendly types did the opposite and either got their asses handed to them, or were as ineffectual as a liberal government.

    I got into alot of things...some maybe because of bad decisions (come on man...there are only twenty gang members in there...we have them surrounded)...but not once was I ever surprised...and not once did I ever lose a fight. Now, I did have plenty of internal affairs cases due to use of force, or as one pencil-necked, cock-breath lieutenant put it..."over escalation". But that was basically fodder for our current doctrine and served to give the Dragon lady and I plenty of vacation weekends courtesy of disciplinary days off.
    Gabe Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, TX
    Posts
    1,922
    I believe that being effective at de-escalation and being effective at stomping mud holes is bad guys are different sides of the same coin. There are times to de-escalate but not at "all costs". What I find interesting, though, is that the very same ones pushing de-escalation: 1) Can't do it themselves and 2) Couldn't escalate effectively either.

    Being effective at both is part of being the Gentleman Killer that has been discussed in-depth here.

    The cops and men that I respected as a young troop were the ones that could talk to anyone as if they were friends and kill anyone at the drop of the hat when they were a threat.
    Last edited by Jess Karren; 08-27-2017 at 07:18 PM.
    "Sometimes A Teacher; Always A Student"

    Retired from teaching for the time being.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    12,380
    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    Edel...they should have killed the suspect when he went for the knife. It was that simple.
    EXACTLY....the sad part isn't so much that he wasn't, its that the officers, were for some reason(s) afraid to do it. Then theres the question of WHY they were afraid--was it because they were afraid they would go to jail--was it afraid they would get fired because had gotten used to the money and benefits and they had a family--was it because they were afraid to hurt/kill someone? My guess not from knowing them (obviously I don't); but from knowing officers like them is some of all three.

    After 30+ years as a cop, I learned to hate a lot of bosses and a lot of policies and a lot of cops who followed the rules because they were too afraid to see that the rules were bad.

    Every time a scared cop fails to use his weapon when its called for, he makes it harder for the next cop to shoot AND that puts him and every other cop in danger. Imagine for a second if one of those three officers HAD shot the guy when he went for the knife and then the other two told Internal Affairs and the Prosecutor and maybe even a jury, that they didn't shoot because they didn't think it was necessary..... THEN imagine the next call where a cop gets killed because he heard about the cop that shot and got fucked by the pussies on his squad..... Pussies breed pussies

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,124
    See, this is what happens when the accepted response to "Why do you want to be a police officer?" is:

    "I just want to help people."
    Warrior for the working day.

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa


    2, 11, 14. And a wakeup.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,303
    I'll pretend this is choir practice. Apologies that tone won't carry perfectly.

    Brother, you've got a soup sandwich on the road. Assuming that the cops in the DV are yours, there is an obvious need for retraining at a minimum. If any of the officers or other innocent parties present were in actual jeopardy, then you best be considering discipline. Any failure to enforce the appropriate standard automatically sets an inappropriate one. If you have cops afraid to defend an innocent life, there are monumental issues.

    I police right down the road from you, in a place that might be called Baja Berkeley. Nevertheless, I have to rein the pirate crew in far more often than I need to spur them forward. It's not the Sergeant's fault if the command climate is fucked, but it is the Sergeant's problem. And I'll tell you first hand that it's fixable.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central IN
    Posts
    757
    And my former friend used to bitch about verbal escalation, and lack of soft skills from cops when he worked mall security.

    Sent from my LG-K120 using Tapatalk
    Soli Deo Gloria

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Havana on the Willamette
    Posts
    1,135
    My hetero lifemate and best combat partner of many years finally left the Liberal Portland Police Bureau to move home and be a Texas State Trooper. At his going away party, he said that for awhile everyone kept asking why he wanted to leave and move home to Texas and be a cop there. Then he showed two videos.

    First this one:


    Then, this one:


    Mindset of the leadership and agency determines tactics on the street. My guess is that my partner was tired of being an academy certified social worker.
    Masters in Warfare-OEF Class of 2002-2003, 2006-2007
    Majors: Offensive Terminal Ballistics and Overseas Bovine Scatology

    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
    Robert Heinlein




  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE WV
    Posts
    676
    I have a Craft (Chris Kyle Foundation?) t-shirt: "Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems."
    I always have my primary weapon; it's right between my ears.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    504
    Those videos don't even compare lol.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    12,380
    [QUOTE=David Bowman;1880546]

    QUOTE]

    THIS is just sad. Soooo true but sad. Its what many PDs have become. Its the new face of Law Enforcement and the worse part is its being embraced is how cops should be.

    To you cops that are still warriors, I salute you, carry on the fight; but always remember theres the enemy on the street AND the enemy at the precinct

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