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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    GA
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    60
    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    the problem I see with the AK is that its manufacture seems to be much dependent on abilities and work ethic of the production workers. What the Russians were sending Gabe, especially the S12 were all over the place and to fix what was done at the factory was not feasible from a point of economics. For the bulgarian AKs, they have a better reputation, but I have seen claims of an occasional bad one also. If you are willing to spend the green, one should send your ak to someone like fuller. To do it right will not be cheaper than a decent AR. Perhaps an exceptionally well made AK can shoot under 2 MOA. The AR with decent barrel and the other fittings can do under one MOA.
    At 30 yards 3 MOA is good, at 600 yards it is not.
    Here in W GA and E ALA, I would be lucky to be able to shoot 200yds. My Arsenal SGL 21-61 will do just fine.
    2 Timothy Chapter 4 : 2-4
    2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter76 View Post
    To be fair, most people can't shoot MOA at 400 yds no matter how good the rifle.

    _________________________________________

    That said, on to the question... While I don't own a WASR by all accounts their QC has dramatically improved over the last couple years. Accuracy seems to still be about 3 MOA, but fit and finish are greatly improved. While I wouldn't take one over my Arsenal or my BCM, I would take a WASR over most other AK's and certainly over any of the in house built Century guns.
    So lets dumb down the rifle and the demands so MOST PEOPLE can feel better about themselves.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  3. #13
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    And 200 yards...that is what red dot pistols are for. Its 2017 afterall.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Colorado
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    7,315
    The other side of this coin is most of the 7.62x39 ammo sucks balls. There is an envelope where it all works very well in but I want more if I have a choice.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    The other side of this coin is most of the 7.62x39 ammo sucks balls. There is an envelope where it all works very well in but I want more if I have a choice.
    Oh...something else I tried to do with Corbon and Lapua. The price point was not something I expected ANYONE in the AK market would have wanted to spend. That market is populated by incessant deal-seekers and the vast majority of everything is driven by price rather than quality. Even the "custom builders", and I studied their businesses very well, were building dozens of "rack grade" rifles for every pristine weapon they built. And even those pristine weapons were hard pressed to hit with accuracy with the shit ammo that was and is common in the AK world.

    The Finns did the AK right...but a Sako 95 or a Valmet in the USA would not do well because of the high cost. Nope...I moved on. I still have an Arsenal SBR in the safe and the original AK I used in the first AK class...but in my safe there are no other AKs, nor do I have any interest in them at this time.

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    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
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    Mar 2011
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    Western WA
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    I bought some Lapua and it worked so well in my Sig 556R. I'm not opposed to spending money for good quality but it was more than I wanted to spend.

    I found that Federal Fusion was almost as good. Still spendy but more reasonable.

    Sadly there's just not the same choice of supply as 5.56...or even other calibers.
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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    397
    +1 on the Lapua 123gr.
    anonymity is underrated

    Unfair. Unbalanced. Unmedicated.

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  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I bought some Lapua and it worked so well in my Sig 556R. I'm not opposed to spending money for good quality but it was more than I wanted to spend.

    I found that Federal Fusion was almost as good. Still spendy but more reasonable.

    Sadly there's just not the same choice of supply as 5.56...or even other calibers.
    Terminal ballistics relative to ammo is quite important and I do have what are as of now some disjointed thoughts on ammo. I did buy some AK diameter barnes all copper bullets but I have not got around to reloading yet. Corbon and the loads I could dig up seem to give muzzle velocities that equal about 2200 IIRC correctly. The Golden tiger is loaded to almost 2400 fps out of a 16 inch barrel that is the text book military spec for that round. Perhaps 150 fps is not so important.
    I have noted many of the people for 5.56 are going for barrels shorter than the original 20 inch barrel. What the 5.56 greatest assets are low recoil and very high velocity. Chop the barrel and you start losing that high velocity. Many people are using 6.5 mm and 300 cal bullets in the AR thinking that larger projectiles are needed. There are some reports that the russians are interested in the 6.5 grendal since its head size is the same as that of the 7,62x39 ammo that it normally uses.

    I agree that AK ammo choice is quite limited in the USA.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Not what I said at all... But what logical sense does it make someone who can't shoot better than 3 or 4 MOA, and who aren't likely to spend the trigger time required to improve, to spend $2000+ when a $600 WASR will serve them just as well. The reality is maybe 20% of the gun owning population can make a consistent 300 yard shot, let alone farther. It doesn't matter how good the hardware, it doesn't make up for skill. For those people a WASR is probably all the gun they'll ever need. And as another poster alluded to, environment matters. If I live in a heavily wooded area where my longest shots possible are 200 yeards, why do I need a 400 yard MOA gun?

    From a business POV, and from the POV of someone who can shoot pretty well, I understand where you're coming from. But from a practical position acknowledging that most people aren't that skilled with a firearm, even the lowly WASR will always be more gun than most need. Still, in the end for those who can afford it, the firearms industry is driven by want not need, so people will spend what they can afford for what they want, which is more often than not driven by what they think is 'cool'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    So lets dumb down the rifle and the demands so MOST PEOPLE can feel better about themselves.


    "If you find yourself in a fair fight you failed to properly prepare..."

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  10. #20
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    Certain words in bold to emphasize why I dropped the AK and the AK market like a coke habit. You actually said it best for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter76 View Post
    Not what I said at all... But what logical sense does it make someone who can't shoot better than 3 or 4 MOA, and who aren't likely to spend the trigger time required to improve, to spend $2000+ when a $600 WASR will serve them just as well. The reality is maybe 20% of the gun owning population can make a consistent 300 yard shot, let alone farther. It doesn't matter how good the hardware, it doesn't make up for skill. For those people a WASR is probably all the gun they'll ever need. And as another poster alluded to, environment matters. If I live in a heavily wooded area where my longest shots possible are 200 yeards, why do I need a 400 yard MOA gun?

    From a business POV, and from the POV of someone who can shoot pretty well, I understand where you're coming from. But from a practical position acknowledging that most people aren't that skilled with a firearm, even the lowly WASR will always be more gun than most need. Still, in the end for those who can afford it, the firearms industry is driven by want not need, so people will spend what they can afford for what they want, which is more often than not driven by what they think is 'cool'.
    One excuse upon another excuse attempting to justify why their "good enough" (and extremely inexpensive) kit is just as good as those 'spensive guns the excellence seekers choose to arm themselves with. Following that line of thinking, all you really need is a lever action 30-30, and a Ruger revolver...and working some overtime instead of spending your time lifting, shooting, reading, or training.
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