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Thread: A PISTOL KATA?

  1. #11
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    This is just an example of what sword kata are like, not a specific sword kata:

    1. Defender stands with sword drawn in Gedan no Kamae (sort of like the Low Ready but with a sword) and the attacker stands in Jodan (holding the sword above the head.)

    2. Attacker strikes downward and the defender steps forward off the X at a 45 degree angle while bringing his blade up to cut the attacker's wrists.

    3. Defender cuts off attacker's head.




    IMO commonly taught drills like the Mozambique and Tuller Drill would fall into the definition of kata.
    "Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot

  2. #12
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    For me the value of a kata is that it is something that I can make myself do late at night. That is you make them a routine. If you learn them well enough the moves can be applied in a real life scenario without even consciously thinking about them. This allows one to be more attentive to the scenario at hand rather then trying to think out a solution in a split second. If the movements are practiced a lot, one will also when preforming them do them better. But of course when training, one must always be thinking what the moves are for and do them in what will be the most effective way. I would like to preform them with an air soft at home and as needed modify them for use at the range with a firearm.
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
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  3. #13
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    I'm very excited/interested in this idea. Would love to come to Prescott to learn these firsthand.
    “Every day the same thing...variety”

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Liu View Post
    IMO commonly taught drills like the Mozambique and Tuller Drill would fall into the definition of kata.
    In concept...yess. But the majority of US gunwork is stationary, and formulated for live fire only. Simple is good...but the extreme is dumbing it down so idiots could understand it.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    1). That is you make them a routine.

    2). can be applied in a real life scenario without even consciously thinking about them.

    3). allows one to be more attentive to the scenario at hand rather then trying to think out a solution in a split second.

    4). always be thinking what the moves are for and do them in what will be the most effective way.

    5). I would like to preform them with an air soft at home and as needed modify them for use at the range with a firearm.
    You have a firm grasp of the concept young Skywalker.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #16
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    Kata are practiced by a great many who don't have a clue as to the detailed meaning of the movement. This is more prevalent in the -do than the -jutsu worlds, but it's still seen in both. Some teachers (systems) deliberately separate things into ura and omote in part to provide an institutional way of addressing such, but I'm not sure it's a good answer.

    Related to that is the ignorant addition of flash to the form. Since dude doesn't know what's going on, might as well make it visually appealing, no?

    Other systems have been down this road before. Might be nice to start out with a plan to avoid their potholes.
    __________

    "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post

    Related to that is the ignorant addition of flash to the form. Since dude doesn't know what's going on, might as well make it visually appealing, no?

    This has come about by people not only not understanding a specific kata, but totally misunderstanding the purpose of kata.

    They basically think it is a dance, so they get flashy and unrealistic, and even use weapons not found in their actual martial art, that is, weapons they have no idea how to use.

    I first saw this at a martial arts expo I was volunteering at. Some guy was doing a stupid kama dance, and at the end he stood in a horse stance and flailed the pair of kama from their lanyards around his thighs. This would obviously me an idiotic thing to do with actual blades. The crowd loved it.

    Maybe 10 years ago I went to a message board from a system I used to train in that prided itself in how "realistic" it was. There was a thread on "musical kata" and I thought it was a joke until I clicked on it.

    The really stupid thing that is popular these days is "sword kata" from people who train in systems that to not train in swords (and apparently don't understand that edges cut,) so they have no real instruction other than that they have an object to twirl around when they dance.
    "Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot

  8. #18
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    A kata is a catalog of strategic and conceptual movement, taken from successful fighting methods, proven in combat, and organized in a brief collection of movements, easily remembered and repeated.

    The practice there of leading to technical excellence as well as automatic execution under duress.

    The combat origin and the student's full understanding of the application is imperative. That last point is missing in Asian systems and has to do with protecting skills ... opsec if you will...from rivals that may have offered combat at any moment, and knowing your strategy would give them an advantage. That situation is not present here.

    A kata is not a gymnastics floor exercise nor is its purpoae to impress. A kata is the training of killing science, alone, for repeated physical memorisation. Period.

    Trying to make a kata "pretty" would be what the bullet golfers would do...and I do not have such people in my organisation.
    Last edited by Gabriel Suarez; 07-18-2017 at 10:40 AM.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Consider the progression

    Combat success leads to codification of concept and strategy...recognized via success of technique and tactic.
    Technique and tactic are trained and refined as individual movements.
    In order to crystalize those movements and codify them for the future, and thereby also teach concept and strategy, they are set forth in a kata.

    Backward planning at its best.

    Students then learn the kata, and thereby the concept and strategy that birthed it. The same 100 years from now, barring dramatic weaponry changes, as they are done today. Consider the east and the west systems of combat. Had the west used the concept of organized self-directed training, the methods of the west would be as remembered today as those of the east.
    We should take this up and explore it thoroughly. We have a skilled tribe and a considerable body of tech to draw from.
    Ted Demosthenes
    Suarez International Staff Instructor


    From Murphy's Laws of Combat: "Incoming has the right-of-way" (so, GTFOTX!!)


  10. #20
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    I will not allow thread fuckery nor derailment here
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

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