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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    8,925
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    It's not too complicated but a LOT of work to stay anonymous, and one slip-up breaks the veil. Anonymous LLC's for every real property, vehicle title, bill of any kind, etc. Mail drops for 100% of mail, driver's license at an alternate address, voter registration, it goes on. Try an exercise; sit down and try to write out everything tied to your name or address. It's daunting. It really depends on how far you are willing to go.

    If you go far enough with this, you can't bring any electronic device home that has ever connected to people or sites/services that are connected to you. VPNs, proxies, etc., are only secure to a point.

    edit: Gabe and others have posted here before about driver's license addresses and some of these other details. Some states(don't know how many) have laws that specifically allow "false" address for LEO.

    The number one thing you need to really do all that is CASH.

    No mortgage, pay for the property in full.

    Before you buy, have a lawyer YOU TRUST setup the LLC to handle the transaction. May even want to transfer the deed twice so that the timing of the transaction doesn't yield anything under analysis. More expense. Lawyers don't work off loans.

    Mail drops that ARE NOT PO BOXES. The best is a commercial property you own, which takes more CASH. Second best is a private-industry (not .gov) mail service (UPS store or similar). Won't stop somebody from tailing you home after you go visit the property to get your mail, but that's not the point of this. This exercise is to remove the INFORMATION trail, not hide from spooks. Keep in mind that the mail service addresses are in big databases and your local DMV may very well reject your "address" because it's blacklisted as a way to avoid their surveillance of you.

    Getting utilities out of your name takes some clever social engineering when you call to set it up. Claim you're a real estate rental service, use a fake name, tell them you want to pay the deposit rather than use a credit check. They won't entirely care as long as they're paid. This is harder to do in urban/suburban areas compared to rural. Again, more CASH.

    Same with cars - pay with cash and tie the addresses to the secondary address.

    Here's the part that will get some of you stuck: home owner's insurance. So you bought this home/cars in CASH using LLCs wrapped in trusts setup by a trustworthy attorney you paid in CASH, but you don't want to risk losing the entire house to a fire, tornado, flood, whatever, so you want to insure it. The wealthy will simply "self-insure" (this is how celebrities do it). But hey, you probably will have to drop every dollar you own into this project, so call up your insurance agent, and the first thing they're going to want is: the property address. Then they'll want to send mail to the property address. The trick is for you to find a way to have them underwrite the property address but only send mail to a mailing address. Come up with a reason. This easy for rural property: "I don't have a mailbox or mail service setup since it's out in the country. I go into town to pickup all my mail." They'll say: "Oh, OK. Didn't know people still did that." Then a day later, somebody else from underwriting will call you asking the same question. Be prepared to answer that question multiple times as your policy makes its way through the approval chain at a large bureaucracy.

    CASH. Lots of it. Probably at least $500K if you want to do this and live comfortably. That will rule out 99% of Americans right there. Even if they "own" a 750K home, it's unlikely they own it without a mortgage and the accompanying vehicle loans.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD

    DISCIPLINA EST LIBERTATEM
    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO


    T
    WOTU Since 2012


  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    8,925
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyOblivion View Post
    It's even worse than that.

    You'd have to not have any state issued ID (including CCW). Not vote. Not have a *debit* card.

    You can't OWN your home because that generates public records etc.

    What you MIGHT be able to do, if it's really worth the hassle, is to redirect a little bit. Get a PO box at a post office or PO box store (UPS store etc.) and route ALL of your mail there including (if you can) your drivers license, car registration and CCW. Those last three are *probably* not legal. Get a off contract cellphone and buy your minutes by the month. Cancel your credit cards and use stored value cards or cash.

    PITA really. I've got few enough hours in the week to work, exercise, play with the wife and kids and relax. Not going to worry about what some nosy nellie can dig up about me on the internets.

    You're not going to hide from the government or anyone with enough money. Hell, I've got a friend who can find off the grid people by doing a dozen internet searches then making a few phone calls. If she didn't have bigger fish to fry she'd be hell at skip tracing.

    I've done it. It's hard. I'm actually in the process of undoing it, because life is easier without it. One side benefit for all of this: the amount of scam phone calls and "important please call your mortgage protection agent right now, final notice!" junk mail has been so low, I forgot what it's like being on the grid. I don't know how "normal" people just spend time throwing that away and hanging up on calls without realizing how much of your time these fraudsters are stealing-- that's what makes me angriest.
    LIVING > FIRED > JAIL > DEAD

    DISCIPLINA EST LIBERTATEM
    KRG, HRO: Team Tactics 1/2, CRG, HRO: CQB/Team Tactics, Defensive Knife, TMCO


    T
    WOTU Since 2012


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    178
    Luckily, a lot of this is not much of a problem yet. There is so much data being collected and growing so rapidly that there isn't an easy way to just "grab it all" and put it together.
    Unless you are a criminal, or plan to be one, or want to become a politician or the president, then keeping a squeaky clean internet profile isn't all that important.

    Also remember that all this data being collected has to point to a central record that really means YOU. IP addresses change, physical addresses change, cell services change. It's hard to prove credit cards weren't stolen or used by a rogue kid, or someone didn't steal your ISP/wireless and do bad things, or jack your car.

    So just because lots of records exist, it would be very very hard to collect it all, create a reasonable case against you for anything without any doubt in said data. Just because the IP address of my house did something bad, is not proof that I myself did something bad, because I am not the same as my IP, and my IP is not the same as me.

    That doesn't mean I don't try to protect my kids a bit, and avoid using my real name all over the place. But don't become a conspiracy nut over it. Use a VPN if you want to mask internet traffi, don't use "the cloud" as much as possible. And if you DO use online services, choose companies that are located in other countries with tighter data security and laws, like Switzerland or Norway or something. Use services that encrypt the data at your own computer first, this way not even company employees would be able to access the data if they wanted. So-called "trust no one" encryption.

    These few steps are relatively easy and unobtrusive. Simply use some company services and not others, buy a VPN and install on your computer and phone or whatever. Done.
    "Inspirationally pithy quote"
    -Dead dude

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilante View Post
    Luckily, a lot of this is not much of a problem yet. There is so much data being collected and growing so rapidly that there isn't an easy way to just "grab it all" and put it together.
    Unless you are a criminal, or plan to be one, or want to become a politician or the president, then keeping a squeaky clean internet profile isn't all that important.

    Also remember that all this data being collected has to point to a central record that really means YOU. IP addresses change, physical addresses change, cell services change. It's hard to prove credit cards weren't stolen or used by a rogue kid, or someone didn't steal your ISP/wireless and do bad things, or jack your car.

    So just because lots of records exist, it would be very very hard to collect it all, create a reasonable case against you for anything without any doubt in said data. Just because the IP address of my house did something bad, is not proof that I myself did something bad, because I am not the same as my IP, and my IP is not the same as me.

    That doesn't mean I don't try to protect my kids a bit, and avoid using my real name all over the place. But don't become a conspiracy nut over it. Use a VPN if you want to mask internet traffi, don't use "the cloud" as much as possible. And if you DO use online services, choose companies that are located in other countries with tighter data security and laws, like Switzerland or Norway or something. Use services that encrypt the data at your own computer first, this way not even company employees would be able to access the data if they wanted. So-called "trust no one" encryption.

    These few steps are relatively easy and unobtrusive. Simply use some company services and not others, buy a VPN and install on your computer and phone or whatever. Done.
    The first couple paragraphs are ludicrously false. Is that info used by average criminals? No, doubt it. But the information is most definitely organized, identified to you/your household, and available for commercial use. We have some members here who know far more about that world than me. Even a quick, detailed tenant background check can yield more than you may realize.

    Old(in the Internet age) maxim: If you aren't paying for the product, you ARE the product. The line is also heavily blurred with membership/subscription services like Netflix, Amazon, etc.

    I don't bother with true anonymity because I don't have the time or financial resources, I have a job working for someone else, and as mentioned previously, it's a great deal of work for dubious returns.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,989
    Quote Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
    I've done it. It's hard. I'm actually in the process of undoing it, because life is easier without it. One side benefit for all of this: the amount of scam phone calls and "important please call your mortgage protection agent right now, final notice!" junk mail has been so low, I forgot what it's like being on the grid. I don't know how "normal" people just spend time throwing that away and hanging up on calls without realizing how much of your time these fraudsters are stealing-- that's what makes me angriest.
    I think that we've become so used to junk mail that throwing it away is like dealing with leaves that fall off the trees--you like trees, you rake leaves. Or you pay someone to do it.

    It may help that the Wife and I don't have a landline so we haven't gotten many phone calls.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,989
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
    The first couple paragraphs are ludicrously false. Is that info used by average criminals? No, doubt it. But the information is most definitely organized, identified to you/your household, and available for commercial use. We have some members here who know far more about that world than me. Even a quick, detailed tenant background check can yield more than you may realize. .
    I'm working on a data warehousing project for .ftszzed crackle pop.. get data from 5 internal sources, regular feeds from 3 or 4 external sources and intermittent data from another 10 or 20 sources.

    We do "data warehousing", not plain old databases, so when we detect you've moved (or whatever) we don't *delete* that old row, nor do we update it. We create a new row with the new information and mark the old one inactive *with a date*, and the new one active *with a date*. So in theory if we trusted our data (the client does. Me, not so much) we could track a significant number of fzstessedns over about 3 decades. Addresses, phone numbers, numbers of people living at that address. etc.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    434
    Just and FYI on the homeowners insurance, currently I do not know anyone that will allow you to list the primary residence without a physical property address, post 911 insurance laws actually require street addresses now. The easiest way to do get around it is to get commercial insurance for the property in question especially if it rural in nature. If urban you may have to settle for insuring as a rental property, not renters insurance. The big difference here is the amount of content coverage available.
    Greg Nichols- Who you are 5 years from now is directly related to the books you read, who you associate with, and how you spend your free time.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NPE
    Posts
    218
    Getting rid of old trails is almost impossible. Much easier to just move, and set up everything anonymously at the new location. The little I own is each in a separate anonymous llc. Though if someone really wants to go through the insane expense and time of finding you, it's not bulletproof. Security is only as good as it's weakest link, and mine is that I have a regular day job.
    “Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.” - Optimus Prime

    "I would not hang with a tribe that had to invoke the Lord's name and role in every sentence uttered. It makes Christians sound as extremist as a hadji." - Gabe Suarez

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    NE Oklahoma
    Posts
    956
    Thanks for all the information. There is a ton of information here, going into areas even that I never intended, but are still very enlightening nonetheless.

    We've moved, the entire process was a nightmare and I've no interest in expounding on it... relevant to the discussion is that the current arrangement is a rental, so I'll be looking into the LLC and Trust options in the future after setting up something more permanent.

    Thanks again!
    One God, Yahweh.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelveren View Post
    Thanks for all the information. There is a ton of information here, going into areas even that I never intended, but are still very enlightening nonetheless.

    We've moved, the entire process was a nightmare and I've no interest in expounding on it... relevant to the discussion is that the current arrangement is a rental, so I'll be looking into the LLC and Trust options in the future after setting up something more permanent.

    Thanks again!
    You may be in the perfect position if you havent let any toothpaste out of the tube yet...

    Buy How to Be Invisible by JJ Luna and How to Disappear by Frank Ahern. Pay cash LOL at a B&M store. The former is more applicable to what you want to do but the latter has good info as well.

    Set up new mail at UPS store and bank accounts before you move or as soon after as humanly possible. They will use old address and will require your DL which hopefully you haven't changed yet. No law to says you have to give them new addy when you move... paper stuff going to UPS box anyway.

    Get a shelf LLC and put all your utilities in its name...tell them your new company or what ever is picking up your bills as part of your employment package. This will require getting a FEIN for the shelf LLC but no biggy. The rates will probably be higher because its a business acct. Buy your vehicle with cash and put it in the name of the LLC as well.

    If you are like me and dont have the $$ to buy your house outright in a trust then not much you can do but I will say this. Just because someone owns a piece of property doesnt mean that person lives there so the only thing you can hope for is making that a dead end with never having anything ever sent there mail etc. see below.

    Never ever give out your new address (where you live) to anyone or ever have anything delivered to the new place. This is huuuge! Most of the stuff from these search engines comes from the same places the junk mail guys get it...from where you buy stuff and have stuff shipped.

    If you are on facebook thats a no no and I dont think you can put that back in the old tube. Ive never been on the evil thing so that was one headache I didnt have.

    Again I highly recommend the book How To Be Invisible. I went down this road a few years ago when we moved and to my knowledge nothing traces me back to our new place...at least for the lower end free search websites. The alphabet gang will always be able to locate me. As would a hired PI, mainly because he probably has some small town cop on his speed dial who can run my info. Im cool with that. Its the disgruntled employee or crazy drunk chick you met at the bar are the ones Im steering clear of. Level 1 or 2 lite privacy is good with me.

    7M3

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