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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    2,989
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ223 View Post
    Better stopping power at close distance (I don't like the term. But, you know what I mean)
    From what I've heard from reliable witnesses, the shotgun is about the only thing sort of a .50 cal (YKWIM) for which the term "stopping power" is actually reasonable.

    P.S. I am not really worried about capacity.
    Top off on the go.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    186
    In general, my hunting and killing things experience tells me heavy bullets kill better than light bullets.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyOblivion View Post

    Top off on the go.
    Exactly. My favorite way to practice that is to take a shotgun, load a single shell, tell the person running the thrower to launch another as soon as I bust the first. Then you have to load and cycle the gun before the next clay is out of range. It's fun and good weapons handling training.


    Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Psalms, 144:1

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,323
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Anything can fail...but the more physical damage and bleeding you cause with minimal effort, the less likely your adversaries will continue with their plans.
    It's almost like I wrote a long ass article on this very topic a few weeks ago.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NC for refit
    Posts
    1,512
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Nichols View Post
    It's almost like I wrote a long ass article on this very topic a few weeks ago.
    As did I a few years ago.

    http://blog.suarezinternational.com/...l-staff-i.html


    v/r

    JD

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,152
    FINALLY... we are coming back to appreciate the Shotgun!!!
    Yea, though I walk through the valley, in the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I graduated from Suarez International's Ultimate Combat Skills Course.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    6,875
    Quote Originally Posted by BJJ223 View Post
    Great replies. I had not considered the "two for one" effect at greater distances on armed attackers.

    Just brainstorming here ... What would you think about a plan that used a carbine in the day / shotgun at night?

    The reasoning would be all the advantages of the shotgun would seem to be more likely at night - hitting targets in reduced visibility / waking up to your front door being kicked in by multiple bad guys up close and real dynamic. In the day time, you can more easily use the advantage of optics to keep bad guys at a distance. The fog of war will be a little less intense in the day because you can see. The precision of a carbine could be capitalized on more.

    It seems like the shotgun became "uncool" as a fighting tool shortly after the AWB expired. Everyone was so happy to get their M4s and AKs back, they wanted nothing else. The wars in the middle east seemed also to contribute to "carbine fever". Everyone wanted to be just like the guys fighting the towelheads.

    I know you guys like to think outside the box and avoid silly gun fads. So, I am just doing some brainstorming.
    Day and night seems to be moving in the right direction. Different tools for different jobs and I like where you are going.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    12,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Biggs View Post
    FINALLY... we are coming back to appreciate the Shotgun!!!
    YES, some of us never stopped; but I'm glad others are coming back

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE WV
    Posts
    669
    Confession, just back online, haven't read all the replise. Reread Gabe's #5 in his post #3: Round of buck into the pavement in their general direction; a tactic formerly known as skipping.Think I first read about here, a long time ago. Also, item #6 has merit....

    Mayor Dailey when rioting started in Chicago said : "Looters, shoot to wound; arsonists, shoot to kill." Riots fizzled.
    I always have my primary weapon; it's right between my ears.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SE TX
    Posts
    1,574
    I charged into "civil unrest" situation with a shotgun, in the very late Eighties or very early Nineties, centered at Andrews and Valentine streets in Houston's Fourth Ward. Three officers were handling two situations a very short distance apart, when "the ward" decided to turn on them, including shots being fired at police officers. As I arrived, running east on Andrews from Taft*, I saw Mark's patrol car. The few people between me, and Mark's car, scattered, and I saw Mark crouched low. I stopped several car lengths' distance from his car, and exited with my shotgun, which I carried up front with me. Folks scattered more, and this gave Mark the opening to open his trunk, and get his shotgun. This changed the whole equation, breaking the crowd's initiative. They did not leave, but they stayed back. Some shots were still being fired, but those firing them were cowering behind the crowd, so the bullets were hitting two-story houses at the second floor and roof level, well above our heads.

    Three good guys, with handguns, had become four good guys, with two shotguns and handguns. The crowd had gone from bold, to loud, but cowed.

    Soon afterward, the whole world arrived, as officers breaking-away from their adjacent patrol districts flooded the area. We found that one handcuffed prisoner had been released from the back seat of a patrol car, but no patrol cars were burned or otherwise seriously damaged. What might have become a sizable riot, was nipped in the bud. Two shotguns, held by resolute defenders, may well have made all the difference. As I look back on 33+ years of service, this may have been the single most important thing I did; there is just no way to know what would have happened if I had not been there, at that moment in time, or had not had my shotgun handily available. (I always keep my shotgun up-front. At the time, it was probably an S&W 3000; I do not remember it being my Benelli M1, which I acquired in the 1991-1993 time frame. I returned to 870 Remingtons later, and then recently added a Benelli M2, in time for Stupid Bowl 2017.)

    Houston's "Fourth Ward," a.k.a. Historic Freedmen's Town, is not nearly as large as many other urban blighted areas, so I am not saying this incident would have grown to anything as massive as other well-known riots in recent history, elsewhere in the USA. Today, of course, this area is largely gentrified, looking nothing like it did in the Eighties and Nineties.

    Disclaimer: I am not claiming hero status. There was no time for fear, though I remember enjoying the experience. When armed men retreat at one's sudden appearance, it is exhilarating. (Winston Churchill said something very quotable along those lines, but I cannot remember it now.)

    *If anyone is google-mapping this, Andrews no longer extends as far west as Taft, due to a very large school being built along Taft.
    Last edited by Rex G; 06-09-2017 at 06:17 PM.
    Have Colt, will travel.

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