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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SE TX
    Posts
    1,574
    On the topic of the shotgun, in general, during civil unrest, or any prolonged situation, the weight and, especially, the bulk of ammo is a concern. If hundreds of rounds of ammo are considered essential, shot shells reach a point of diminishing returns. Having a rifle available, as Greg Nichols recommended, would mean, in addition to the rifle's other attributes, that one should not need to keep so much shotgun ammo readily at hand.

    On day-versus-night, I agree that night-time favors the shotgun, all else being equal. I decided that as long as I am doing night-shift urban street patrol work, the shotgun is the better long gun choice for me. (I would hate to bake in the Texas sun, wearing a dark navy blue uniform and IIIA armor, plus front plate, anyway. If go to day shift, it will probably be because I am no longer a first-responder.)

    I might want to have a patrol rifle available, at work, too, but aged-out of the timed, athletic qual, due to bad knees, and my eyes lost the ability to quickly focus on the then-mandated iron sights. The rifle qual is now kinder and gentler, and Aimpoints are now OK, but getting one of the too-few seats in a certification class is no easy matter, so I will probably retire before I am re-certified to again carry a rifle at work.

    As I wind-down my LEO-ing career, I believe the shotgun will remain very important during my retirement years.
    Have Colt, will travel.

  2. #52
    When armed men retreat at one's sudden appearance, it is exhilarating. (Winston Churchill said something very quotable along those lines, but I cannot remember it now.)

    *If anyone is google-mapping this, Andrews no longer extends as far west as Taft, due to a very large school being built along Taft.[/QUOTE]

    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." - Winston Churchill, 1898

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    4,613
    I think it's ridiculous that shotgun AND a rifle are not standard in a patrol car.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    6,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I think it's ridiculous that shotgun AND a rifle are not standard in a patrol car.
    I'm with you there.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    The Once Free State
    Posts
    11,940
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I think it's ridiculous that shotgun AND a rifle are not standard in a patrol car.
    Quote Originally Posted by chad newton View Post
    I'm with you there.
    Well there are cops and then there are COPS. The same applies to cop boss, only there are even less of the latter when it comes to cop bosses. In a perfect world (and I suspect that's closer to being a reality outside here), all cops would be COPS and COPS would be lead by COP BOSSES; but that's not the case. Many departments are phasing out the shotgun because the newest breed of cops cant tolerate the recoil. Its not so much that they cant; but more so that they should never have been cops in the first place. Look at the Freddie Gray riots, when the rioters threw rocks at the police and set fires to businesses AND police cars--the police did NOT fight back-they retreated instead of leaving bodies in the street....

    My former department STILL hasn't issued a rifle to every patrol officer, let alone every officer. They moved the shotgun to the trunk so they could put a printer for traffic tickets in the car. Their answer to locking the few patrol rifles in the car, is a bike lock that is supposed to go around the trunk hinge---but they do have stuffed Teddy Bears in the trunk to hand out to kids.

    Yes I very much DO think both weapons should be available; I just don't think many cops can handle them.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    3,784
    Quote Originally Posted by EDELWEISS View Post
    Well there are cops and then there are COPS. The same applies to cop boss, only there are even less of the latter when it comes to cop bosses. In a perfect world (and I suspect that's closer to being a reality outside here), all cops would be COPS and COPS would be lead by COP BOSSES; but that's not the case. Many departments are phasing out the shotgun because the newest breed of cops cant tolerate the recoil. Its not so much that they cant; but more so that they should never have been cops in the first place. Look at the Freddie Gray riots, when the rioters threw rocks at the police and set fires to businesses AND police cars--the police did NOT fight back-they retreated instead of leaving bodies in the street....

    My former department STILL hasn't issued a rifle to every patrol officer, let alone every officer. They moved the shotgun to the trunk so they could put a printer for traffic tickets in the car. Their answer to locking the few patrol rifles in the car, is a bike lock that is supposed to go around the trunk hinge---but they do have stuffed Teddy Bears in the trunk to hand out to kids.

    Yes I very much DO think both weapons should be available; I just don't think many cops can handle them.
    Or to paraphrase, "You gotta make sure you have the right TOOL for the tool ;) "
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    836
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    I think it's ridiculous that shotgun AND a rifle are not standard in a patrol car.
    We've asked. We can't as yet carry personally owned SGNs either. The stated issue is liability: carbines are regarded as more precise and more accurate and less likely to inflict collateral damage. They threw the baby out with the bathwater when they transitioned to the carbine from the SGN.
    Part of the reason was undoubtedly the alleged heavy recoil (affirmative action?). I suspect the proliferation of dense housing in developments and apartment complexes in parts of the county had a role. Still, animal control officers are issued shotguns and required to qualify with them.
    The principal range officer involved is deceased, and the other players are mostly retired. Time for another push.
    Last edited by Papa; 06-12-2017 at 09:09 AM.
    OTOC

    Warrior for the working day.

    "One pistol is worth a thousand words."

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    4,613
    Papa, I was impressed that your agency seems to give wide leeway on the choice of personal side arms. So at least there's that.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    836
    True. Don't want to be greedy.

    But.
    OTOC

    Warrior for the working day.

    "One pistol is worth a thousand words."

    Es una cosa muy seria. --Robert Capa

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