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  1. #21
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    All of MY rifles have them. All of MY shotguns have them. And all of MY pistols have them. I am beginning to wonder if everything I have taught and have written has been a big waste of time. What is next? Whether we should really just stand and deliver instead of moving in reactive gunfights? Do what you guys want. I am getting to the point where I don't care what others do. Really.

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    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

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  2. #22
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    I assume this thread has come about due to InRange's modern ar video where they decided to not put iorns on their rifles and trust modern optics.
    Geek Warlord
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  3. #23
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    Perfect...lets all go train with them...they should know...they make videos and are popular.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #24
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    And forget the fact that BUIS like magpul's are light, rugged, have a huge utility factor and aren't even that expensive.
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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    202
    Quote Originally Posted by psalms23dad View Post
    Personally I think if you find iron backup sights as a requirement then they need to be the most rugged sights available. I've never understood rail mounted/flip sights for fighting guns. If something happens that causes my optic to fail and I have to resort to irons, 1 they have to work, 2 it needs to be a seem less transition.
    Mounting a sight to a rail that's​ mounted to the gun provides to many more potential failure points for my liking. Just opinion. But yes I think they need irons.
    I have Troy tritium hk style flip ups. I have no doubt they will hold up.

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  6. #26
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    Jan 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    What is next? Whether we should really just stand and deliver instead of moving in reactive gunfights?

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    Well it worked for Wyatt Earp why not for everyone else? Lol. I personally agree that all should have buis of some sort.

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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    1,167
    There have been some ex spec ops guys in the training industry that have stopped running back up irons because they said in their 18-20 year careers in the military, they have never deployed their back up irons ever. Right, but they still had them mounted to their weapons! Well, I don't have a spec ops background, but I'm with the thoughts of anything with batteries can take a shit when you need it most. I will always have back up irons on my rifles. They weigh nothing and its another option to keep fighting if the optic goes down.

  8. #28
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    Nov 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    And forget the fact that BUIS like magpul's are light, rugged, have a huge utility factor and aren't even that expensive.
    This is where I end up. I get that the odds of me needing back up irons may be exceedingly small given modern optics, but what's the downside to having them on a rifle anyway? Virtually zero.

    Also I keep meaning to switch out for QD mounts.
    ===========================
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  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    454
    Quote Originally Posted by WOLF220 View Post
    There have been some ex spec ops guys in the training industry that have stopped running back up irons because they said in their 18-20 year careers in the military, they have never deployed their back up irons ever. Right, but they still had them mounted to their weapons! Well, I don't have a spec ops background, but I'm with the thoughts of anything with batteries can take a shit when you need it most. I will always have back up irons on my rifles. They weigh nothing and its another option to keep fighting if the optic goes down.
    I made it 50+ years before I needed a fire extinguisher to save my house. Damn glad I had it!
    FWIW - I've only had a red dot crap out once - in the middle of a class. Transition to the always-present BUIS was no problem whatsoever. YMMV

    geezer john

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    This is where I end up. I get that the odds of me needing back up irons may be exceedingly small given modern optics, but what's the downside to having them on a rifle anyway? Virtually zero.

    Also I keep meaning to switch out for QD mounts.
    I dunno... you are pretty weak... those few onces might be too much for you.

    I wonder how hard it would be to do a study to find out how often people have needed buis. Along the same lines of how it was discovered the select slug drill never made a difference in a fight.
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