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  1. #1
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    Default SKIPPING THE "OO" IN OODA

    SKIPPING THE "OO" IN OODA

    Monday, March 20, 2017


    One of the new discussion at warriortalk involved this incident.


    How Two Wisconsin police officers thwarted an ambush attack


    The article is a good read of the dynamics of the event. Basically, in a nutshell, a bad guy set up an ambush as a robbery attempt. I have investigated lots of robberies and this was not a robbery in the classic sense. Again, this is my opinion..the bad guy is dead and cannot give us his motive.


    Of note is the following passage:


    "The officers moved to the side (east) door just as a man dressed in camouflage began to exit, armed with an M4 carbine with an optical sight and suppressor. As the armed robber started to raise his slung carbine, fully loaded with a 90-round drum magazine, the officers fired a total of 13 rounds from their sidearms in 2.6 seconds, landing seven hits on their adversary and more on his weapon."


    That reads like a police report, but here is what I think the reality of the event really was - The good guys made up their minds that this was going to be a shooting when they got the call. Thus the need to "Observe" and "Orient" was minimized to the point of having already been accomplished, leaving only the presentation of a target and the elimination of same.


    In 2.6 seconds (I suspect less that that) there was no, "Is this my suspect?", "Could it be someone else dressed just like him with a rifle?", "Should I challenge him?", "What if its not him?", and so on and so forth. And I doubt there was a great deal of yelling to drop the gun.


    There was a description, a location, and a description of events that justify shooting. The two "O"s are taken care of...now it was simply a matter of visually locating him.


    I recently had a discussion with a good friend that is a police supervisor, as well as involved in counter terrorism. He was telling me about how one of his friends was recently in a clear-cut and classic shooting and the indecision almost got him killed. We were discussing how training could affect this sort of thing. My main response was that it is not about shooting skills.
    Teaching someone how to shoot is the same as teaching them to play the piano. It is a technical exercise after all. But the artist has a passion for his art. A guy who knows how to play the piano may or may not identify as a musician. You can tell him he is, and he will think that he is, but the passion of the artist cannot be faked. He has a self identity that the technical piano player doesn't share.


    Perhaps the analogy will not sit well with the modern peace officer, but there it is. Well, there is no "perhaps".


    I recall contacting lots of presumably armed bad guys in bad areas. The moment I saw them I had already completed the decision to kill them where they stood...IF they gave the correct "signal". So rather than OODA...it was more like D waiting for the A. An understanding of things...of my rules of engagement and how I could maneuver around them and through them...of what was really going to happen during the fight...during the post shooting investigation...and afterwards.


    This wasn't a careless approach, but rather one of knowing, situationally, where I was in the event, and in relation to my adversary. But this is not a quantifiable aspect of things, and it cannot be written into policies, nor organized as a qualification course. It is more a matter of how a mind processes information and when to justify action, has that mind received enough information rather than holding out for more. And where one falls in the clarity of information depends on their self image and an self understanding of why they are really there. An complete understanding of what their objectives are. The concept of self-image is a good one that bears deeper exploration. Do you have the self-image of a victim and operate from fear, or the self-image of a predator and operate from strength? (Not all predators are bad).


    Holding out for more information, because of an internal fear of action, when sufficient information has been received causes hesitation, and that may give the adversary a great advantage.


    I think lots of guys - both in and out of uniform - know how to shoot well...what we need to teach them is to change their self-image, and then live up to that image. And holding that image so important that failing it is unthinkable. To develop their passion as an artist. To process incoming information with the mind of an artist, and then act upon that information correctly. And that is not an easy task.


    Teaching the hands is easy. Teaching the head and the heart...that is another matter. Specially if the mind is closed and the heart hardened to new ideas.
    Gabe Suarez

    We cut our enemy's throats with Occam's Razor

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
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    "Holding out for more information, because of an internal fear of action, when sufficient information has been received causes hesitation, and that may give the adversary a great advantage."

    And that internal fear of action is caused by the constant emphasis and repetition of the "L" word.

  3. #3
    Agree 100%....especially the last paragraph.

    A slightly-modified take:

    Based on what Gabe said, it'd seem that the famous "loop" could also be shortened, as follows:

    D = Decide (or "pre-decide") on the apprpriate action(s)

    O = Orient on the threat(s) immediately upon arrival

    A = Act appropriately (via the decision already pre-made, regardless of whether conscious or unconscious competence, i.e., training, savvy, experience, etc. or modify actions based on any new information (hopefully....."insha'allah") <wink>

    Makes for a nice acronym, too!
    Bob
    a.k.a. StealthNeighbor
    CRG-2 / CRG-3 / CRG-4 / HITS-8 / HRO-5 / RGF-1

    "Tell me and I forget.
    Show me and I remember.
    Involve me and I learn."
    --
    quote often attributed to Benjamin Franklin

    "I came into this world kicking, screaming and covered in someone else's blood.
    I have absolutely no issues going out in exactly the same manner."
    --
    unknown (lots of variants)

  4. #4
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    The Infernal Affairs boyz always ask" What did you know. When did you know it. (and) What did you do about it.

    This case is a perfect example of WHAT the officers knew WHEN they knew it and WHAT they did about it--and THATS exactly how I would have worded it in my statement. No more was needed at the time they shot and NO more is needed when they described the events (except maybe a cold beer an a rare steak).

  5. #5
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    Great post!!!
    I realy wish it was more like that over here. The problem as I see it in our current situation is that we are very disinformed. Example
    The local accredited trainer in our community said the other day that it is ilegal to shoot anybody with hollowpoints after I told him I use winchester rangers. This guy tells it to everybody he trains. The other notable two is if a guy atacks you, you may only use the force/weapon he atacks you with to defend yourself. Rock=rock knife=knife etc. You have to fire two warning shots. This bs is getting Boers killed on farms. I organized a expert in this field for our next meeting to clarify when deadly force is appropriate, hopefully it will save some guys life that would have dropped his gun to pick up a rock.

    Sent from my SM-J106F using Tapatalk
    If my time must come, let it be when I am protecting my loved ones. Let there be a pile of brass scattered around me and a pile of my enemies at my feet. Let my slides be locked open on empty mags and my knife broken. Let my face be bloody from biting the throat of my last foe and let me be wearing a necklace of fresh ears. Take me to Your Heavens and let me hear the laughter of my children as they reenact the fight and I will rest peacefully.- Edelweiss.

  6. #6
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    Another way to look at it would be to say that the OO is still there, but the indecisiveness was taken out of the Decide step. They still have to arrive on scene, Observe, and Orient, they merely Decide to act without hesitation when the target appears.

    It's a shame the recent WI event could not have gone down as well.

  7. #7
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    But if I called teh article "The OO are still there, they merely Decide to act without hesitation when the target appears". I doubt most would have even clicked on the article.
    Gabe Suarez

    We cut our enemy's throats with Occam's Razor

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boetman View Post
    Great post!!!
    I realy wish it was more like that over here. The problem as I see it in our current situation is that we are very disinformed. Example
    The local accredited trainer in our community said the other day that it is ilegal to shoot anybody with hollowpoints after I told him I use winchester rangers. This guy tells it to everybody he trains. The other notable two is if a guy atacks you, you may only use the force/weapon he atacks you with to defend yourself. Rock=rock knife=knife etc. You have to fire two warning shots. This bs is getting Boers killed on farms. I organized a expert in this field for our next meeting to clarify when deadly force is appropriate, hopefully it will save some guys life that would have dropped his gun to pick up a rock.

    Sent from my SM-J106F using Tapatalk
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive


    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boetman View Post
    Great post!!!
    I realy wish it was more like that over here. The problem as I see it in our current situation is that we are very disinformed. Example
    The local accredited trainer in our community said the other day that it is ilegal to shoot anybody with hollowpoints after I told him I use winchester rangers. This guy tells it to everybody he trains. The other notable two is if a guy atacks you, you may only use the force/weapon he atacks you with to defend yourself. Rock=rock knife=knife etc. You have to fire two warning shots. This bs is getting Boers killed on farms. I organized a expert in this field for our next meeting to clarify when deadly force is appropriate, hopefully it will save some guys life that would have dropped his gun to pick up a rock.

    Sent from my SM-J106F using Tapatalk
    The number of shots you fire in a given incident should be:

    -The number of shots required to kill the bad guy(s), plus

    -2 warning shots immediately after killing said bad guys.

    Of course the warning shots were fired "first".

    Unless you feed the bad guy corpses to the lions and hyenas, rendering it unnecessary to make any reports to the police.
    There are two types of pain in this world, one of discipline, and one of regret. - Greg Nichols

    Because most like the idea of being a warrior more than the reality of it. - Dave Sauer

    Human beings aren’t the top of the food chain because we’re just so clever. We’re there because deep inside we are the most homicidal animal on the planet, and sometimes that animal isn’t buried all that deep.

    "Last edited by Boetman; 10-21-2015 at 01:54 PM. Reason: confuckulated "

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