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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010

    Default AAR: Red Dot Combat Pistol School February 17 to 19, 2017 - Payne

    RDS 2_17_17.jpg

    A fantastic 3 day course with Jon Payne and Cullin Smith ! I've taken other SI pistol courses prior, but this is a 1st that is specifically focused on the red dot pistol. My equipment - S&W MP core with RMR, 5 mags (wish I brought more), and a HSGI dual pistol mag paddle holder. This AAR is not about Glock vs S&W, as in my pic I have both. My RMR G19 milled by SI has served me well through several SI classes. This time, it was the S&W's turn. I made it a point before I trust my life and family to any piece of arsenal; a SI class is a perfect opportunity to earn its place in my household. So, it fired 100% without any ammo issues (both steel and brass). 1000 rounds were brought, leaving only 103 rounds left of training ammo. The HSGI pistol holder worked perfectly, allowing me to use both S&W and glock mags for training. This holder was purchased for training, not my EDC. Of yes, Uplula mag loader is a plus for both loading and unloading depending upon the exercise at the time.

    Just a summary - introductions, medical procedures, firearm rules, and paperwork. Then onward to zeroing of RDS vs irons, from low-ready, from the holster at various distances from 3 up to 25 yards, and lots of dry fire. Getting off the "X" from different angles (11, 1, 7, 5, 9, and 3 o'clock). Jon also covered RMR maintenance and the SI RMR field kit. Barrier were set up and we practiced both sides of the barrier, kneeling and standing. One handed shots (both hands). Another plus is the 2 person system where your partner ensures that you have your optimal grip, sight picture, etc. The SF drill was fun and very informative too. Hitting steel from various distances was awesome.

    The Cedar Ridge Range was a returned trip for me, its a very good range. Many thanks to Eric to host this class. With San Antonio close by, my family was also along for the trip as there's plenty of shopping at the Outlet stores, Sea World, 6 Flags Fiesta, Alamo, and visiting friends. Many thanks to my classmates, catching up SI brothers and meeting new ones. Texas weather doesn't disappoint, you just never know that she will do. Everyone was prepared to trained regardless of the weather brought to us. That is who we are, that is what we do. We often joke that the weather person is gets paid well to get things wrong.

    The skills learned from this class now must be practiced at home given how perishable they can be. I always learned new skills while accessing my strengths and areas of improvement. Trust me, if your trigger discipline isn't there it will show once the distance increases. My journey continues.....

    Oh...there was 2 Glock PDW in attendance. Talk about a eye-opener of its capabilities. Working both left and right hand - done, no issues. Then add a suppressor which these did have (Thanks to Jon & Bubba ! ) it just went up another level. I have to starting saving up $$ (G17, PDW kit, suppressor, RMR - I'm sold )

    Folks, if you have a RDS pistol; SI will teach you to extract every potential out of it. You and your family certainly deserves it. And for the PDW kit, no brainer. Gabe has it on sale to get your Glock 17 up to speed.
    IDR 10/16/10, IDP 1/8/11, FRS 2/5/11, KRG 3/19/11, AKRG 4/2/11, TMCO 6/4/11, CRG 7/9/11, ACRG 11/12-13/11, VGFF 3/3/12, ATM 4/21 - 4/22/12, GA - 5/4/12, LGPSP 05/26 - 5/27/12, 0-5Ft 6/09 - 6/10/12, CPM 8/11/12, ACPM 8/18/12, PSP 4/6 - 4/7/13, FRS 9/7-9/8/13, ATM 10/26-10/2713, ACRG 11/9 - 11/10/13, GS1 6/7-6/8/14, RGF-3 10/11-10/12/14, RGF4AK: 6/27-6/28/15, Fusing Knife / Pistol: 7/17-7/18/15, HITTS 5 Shotgun 8/2/15, CRG3: 4/2-4-3/16, HRO2 & CQB 9/30 - 10/2/16, RDS Pistol 2/17 - 2/19/17

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Pretty much nailed it with this. I wrote one as well but it's as gone as my original account. Lol

    If nothing else, everyone who attended this class walked away with 100% confidence in their choice of sidearm. Do you think you can make a 15 yard head shot with your non dominant hand? I know we all can. Think you can shoot a 1 to 5/ Special Forces Drill and keep all A zone hits at full speed? We know we can. Lay on your side and make a 30 yard shot? No problem. Clear 2-3 malfunctions per magazine because you Ammo is trash but still keep up with the rest of the class? Well... I can.

    Only one guy in class was apprehensive at the beginning and I honestly think he'd changed his opinion by the end. This truly is the future of the fighting pistol. It is not a gaming pistol, not a gimmick, and there is no place in the realm of gunfighting where it falls short.

    I don't have enough good things to say about the instruction provided by Jon and his assistant/ partner in crime/ comic relief Cullin. A big shout out to Eric for setting up the range and to everyone in class for making it the experience that it was.

    I'll add that I was the youngest guy in class. Anyone saying their too old and crippled for this short of thing needs to meet Jimmy, a Korean War vet recovering from a heart attack a week earlier and Eric with the torn miniscus. They both made me look bad and neither ever made an excuse for skipping a drill. These men have my admiration and I hope I'm as tough as they are as I catch up in age.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Hot Springs, SD
    Thanks for the reviews from both of you. I'm signed up for the Red Dot class in Prescott this fall. I'm going to try my best to do all the drills, but I figure a few will be tough. I asked someone at SI to talk with Gabe when I signed up, as I've been fighting cancer for a while, (Leslie is who I messaged with) and Gabe was nice and patient enough to let me know that I'd be welcome.

    Here in this group, I read about things like escalation of force and when do you go to your gun. In my brittle shape, it's become my only option (outside of the obvious, which is to just not be in a bad place at all). Gabe's first book on Red Dot pistols helped me quite a bit, I literally ordered the slide with the RMR sight for my G19 having no idea how to use it... So, even if I have to sit out a few things, getting the training on how to really use the red dot to its full potential is well worth it.

    Now I'm really looking forward to the class. Thanks again.
    "God, family, tribe...nothing else matters, nothing else counts, nothing else gets a drop of my sweat or my blood." - Gabe Suarez
    "Be a wolf. There are already too many sheep." - Me
    My view of the world:
    David Benjamin West on Facebook, also have a separate page which is Threat-Management.
    NRA Benefactor Member
    CRG, PSP, KRMS, AKRG, DK - Great training will win over great equipment.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Southeast TX/Gulf Coast

    Default Red Dot Pistol School AAR Podcast

    Bob Mayne and Dr. John Edeen talk about training with Jon Payne/Suarez International's Red Dot Combat Pistol School.
    Jon Payne
    Ambassador, Suarez Group of Companies
    Suarez International Law Enforcement Instructor

    The Two Most Dangerous Places in Today's World:
    1.) A Gun Free Zone
    2.) Your Comfort Zone

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Just FYI, my podcast episode review of this class is also available on iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google podcast players, etc. Just search Handgun World Podcast, episode 408,

    I echo the above reviews. The class was an eye opener for me. As predicted, I don't want to shoot my iron sighted pistols much anymore...
    Bob Mayne
    SI Instructor
    Texas CHL Instructor
    HandgunWorld Podcast

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Wanted to throw my shout out to Jon Payne. Red Dot Pistol School was my third Suarez International class, as well as my third class with Jon as my instructor. My skills over the last two years have vastly improved, but in three days at RDPS I dare say my pistol skills doubled. Moreover, my confindence operating with a Red Dot pistol has never been better. Excellent instruction from you Jon, you sir made me a little more dangerous. To all the students I met over the weekend, it was amazing to see how skilled you all are. Bravo! Another nod to Cullin Smith, Cullin is an outstanding assistant instructor. I feel absolutely confident in his instruction as well. And another nod to my training partner, great job brother. If you have doubts about a red dot equipped pistol, then get with the program and take this class!

    Equipment: Suarez V3 19 with Rm06. Suarez AA holster, Suarez mag pouches. ETS and magpul magazines. Also in brief attendance a V317.
    Last edited by Harleystreetbob; 02-28-2017 at 06:42 PM.
    If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7 for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... “Baa.”
    Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

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