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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I honestly am not understanding the confusion.

    Sure...if you are with family, they are more important than the entire country as far as I think. But if they are not there with you....

    Run? Hide? Spread out? Bunch together?

    I don't speak that language kids.

    Should I find myself at an active shooter event, alone...I will be wiping off the tears of joy and gratitude that the Lord saw fit, in His infinite provision, to give me such a gift of opportunity.

    Then I would go find the shooter and kill him with glee and style. Its not to "be a hero", or to "save the f*cking sheep" (whom I tend to not get along with anyway).
    It is because a tiger is delighted to express his tigerness...simply because he is...a tiger.

    All that other shit...I simply do not have that program nor understand that language.
    I understand that motivation to stop the threat and I am not much different.
    The thing is however, even if your family is not at the location of the attack and therefore not in immediate danger, they will still depend on you later.

    If you go in as a lone operator (for a lack of a better word) there are a thousand things which can go wrong and get you killed.
    That is in spite of your equipment and skills. Those will stack the odds a bit more in your favor but some things are just random and out of your influence.
    If you do room clearing alone such a thing as simple as looking in the right corner first while the threat is positioned in the left can be a gameover.
    You also might not have much intel on how many threats might engage you.
    Then there is the problem of (more often than not poorly trained) first responders confusing you with the threat (which can be mitigated as has been discussed here) and then shooting at you.

    Long story short, you could get killed or severly injured in the process and therefore not be able to further provide for and protect your family.
    Please donīt take that as my advice to anyone of just getting out and run.
    It is something to take into consideration when making a decision.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Republic of Pirates
    Posts
    43,495
    Mine in bold - and I might add - absolutely astounded to hear this sentiment here on warriortalk.

    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I understand that motivation to stop the threat and I am not much different.
    The thing is however, even if your family is not at the location of the attack and therefore not in immediate danger, they will still depend on you later.

    So let me get this right -

    1). You are fit, strong, and devote time and energy to being a dangerous man.
    2). You have spent a great deal of money on training
    3). The bad guys really are in danger of you.
    4). You carry the best weapons there are with you daily.

    And when everything in the universe conspires to put you right there at a San Bernardino, an Orlando, a Fort Hood...or even your church...something that was not a coincidence - you run away?


    If you go in as a lone operator (for a lack of a better word) there are a thousand things which can go wrong and get you killed.
    That is in spite of your equipment and skills. Those will stack the odds a bit more in your favor but some things are just random and out of your influence.
    If you do room clearing alone such a thing as simple as looking in the right corner first while the threat is positioned in the left can be a gameover.
    You also might not have much intel on how many threats might engage you.
    Then there is the problem of (more often than not poorly trained) first responders confusing you with the threat (which can be mitigated as has been discussed here) and then shooting at you.

    All of these things have been discussed and vetted here dozens and dozens of times. What I am reading here are excuses to not do anything.


    Long story short, you could get killed or severly injured in the process and therefore not be able to further provide for and protect your family.
    Please donīt take that as my advice to anyone of just getting out and run.
    It is something to take into consideration when making a decision.

    I must say I am a little disgusted. That attitude may be prevalent in Germany where your IP comes from, although I suspect Germans of the past would take exception to your sentiments. Please do not bring that virus on to my ship. If that is the current state where you live, I thank God i am not living there.
    Gabe Suarez

    “Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates.”

    ― Mark Twain


    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    670
    My family understands that I may be killed in the line of duty. They understand that I am inherently aggressive and angry. Since nobody gets out of here alive, how can I not engage evil whenever it presents itself?
    There are no guarantees. If the suspect in the house we cleared yesterday had still been alive he could have shot the first two men in the stack as we came up the stairs. I was #1.
    Sometimes the bear eats you. Die like a man.

  4. #24
    I've kept terriers for many years ( APBT , Airedale , and now a Patterdale ) . All three have acted the same . When they know we are going for a run , they quiver in anticipation . If the game is afoot - forget it .
    All you can do is turn them loose . They yip with glee and chatter their teeth as they tear off . I equate that with wiping away tears of joy . There have been injuries , trips to the vet , stitches - but when they are healed ( and sometimes before ) they are ready to go again. Happy Warriors .
    The point of all this being - I am better suited to meet that kind of threat than many men half my age . If God sees fit to grant me , I too will be wiping away tears of joy .
    If I die , it will NOT be huddled under a desk , hoping the monster chooses someone else .

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    150
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    Mine in bold - and I might add - absolutely astounded to hear this sentiment here on warriortalk.

    Take it easy man with all respect, and I have a lot for you, both professionally and as a person.

    I did not advocate running away and it was certainly not what I had in mind when I wrote the first comment on this topic.
    What I meant is, there are several factors to consider when making the decision; stop the threat or evade it.
    I wrote a bit about reasons/ excuses however you want to put it, after people discussed this question earlier. Those are certainly not my sentiments.
    What a person will do with all the factors is up to himself, but it is something which should be contemplated so that later on, one can act decisively and without delay.

    Of course there are several important pro factors (decisive factors, I think) and trust me, I know what I would do, given reasonable odds (and thatīs a point here in Germany, given our weapon laws on which I will provide some details in the following paragraph).
    I would not stand by or run when innocents are killed (sheep or not, similar to me or not, it does not matter).
    So we are on the same side on that issue.


    The following is not of major concern for the hypothetical situation but some information on my background if you are interested.
    I check all of the criteria you listed with the exception of the last one.
    I do have excellent fitness and technical skills (unarmed, edged or blunt weapons and guns, tactical education and surveillance/ counter- surveillance)
    However, carrying the best weapons available in Germany basically limits you to a tooth pick or something similar.

    I have a license to be armed with a gun when at work which is very seldom allowed in this country.
    I am in the process of applying for a private license as well in addition to the one I have for professional reasons but those are rarely granted.
    For the application it is necessary to explain why I see myself as severely more endangered than the average citizen and why a concealed carry permit is suitable to counter that threat.
    Then an evaluation done by a police intelligence service will basically decide if those rights will be granted or not.
    By the way, if you apply because of a perceived threat from terrorism directed at your person (not just the general possibility of attacks) they can argument that carrying a gun is not suitable to counter that threat since terrorists will usually surprise you, giving you no time to counter attack.
    Accordingly almost all applications are turned down. Even the applications for professional permits are severely restricted.
    In some states not even police officers are allowed to take their duty gun home (from what I see most would not want to anyway).
    There are even police stations which are not allowed to have officers armed with anything more than a baton.
    The current political climate is moving towards ever stricter weapon laws throughout europe and this is reflected in decisions on individual rights to carry weapons as well.
    Last edited by That Guy; 02-12-2017 at 08:06 AM.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Colorado
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    6,286
    [QUOTE=BillyOblivion;1853924]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkface View Post
    The only solution is a pillow assault weapon.

    How do you get a z in Horatio?
    Hipsters man... who know with them...
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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    South Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,025
    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    Take it easy man with all respect, and I have a lot for you, both professionally and as a person.

    I did not advocate running away and it was certainly not what I had in mind when I wrote the first comment on this topic.
    What I meant is, there are several factors to consider when making the decision; stop the threat or evade it.
    I wrote a bit about reasons/ excuses however you want to put it, after people discussed this question earlier. Those are certainly not my sentiments.
    What a person will do with all the factors is up to himself, but it is something which should be contemplated so that later on, one can act decisively and without delay.

    Of course there are several important pro factors (decisive factors, I think) and trust me, I know what I would do, given reasonable odds (and thatīs a point here in Germany, given our weapon laws on which I will provide some details in the following paragraph).
    I would not stand by or run when innocents are killed (sheep or not, similar to me or not, it does not matter).
    So we are on the same side on that issue.


    The following is not of major concern for the hypothetical situation but some information on my background if you are interested.
    I check all of the criteria you listed with the exception of the last one.
    I do have excellent fitness and technical skills (unarmed, edged or blunt weapons and guns, tactical education and surveillance/ counter- surveillance)
    However, carrying the best weapons available in Germany basically limits you to a tooth pick or something similar.

    I have a license to be armed with a gun when at work which is very seldom allowed in this country.
    I am in the process of applying for a private license as well in addition to the one I have for professional reasons but those are rarely granted.
    For the application it is necessary to explain why I see myself as severely more endangered than the average citizen and why a concealed carry permit is suitable to counter that threat.
    Then an evaluation done by a police intelligence service will basically decide if those rights will be granted or not.
    By the way, if you apply because of a perceived threat from terrorism directed at your person (not just the general possibility of attacks) they can argument that carrying a gun is not suitable to counter that threat since terrorists will usually surprise you, giving you no time to counter attack.
    Accordingly almost all applications are turned down. Even the applications for professional permits are severely restricted.
    In some states not even police officers are allowed to take their duty gun home (from what I see most would not want to anyway).
    There are even police stations which are not allowed to have officers armed with anything more than a baton.
    The current political climate is moving towards ever stricter weapon laws throughout europe and this is reflected in decisions on individual rights to carry weapons as well.
    Wow, personal safety is tough over there. Didn't realize it had dropped to that level.

    Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk
    I kneel for no man and pray to only one God; Jesus Christ.

    تدريب لتكون في نهاية المطاف الأمريكي الكافر

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  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    419
    To keep it simple you either decide to fight all out and utilize everything to your advantage no matter what or you follow what everyone else does.(the whole run and hide crowd) Don't try to blend the two together, it creates compromises and endless "what if" scenarios and hesitation. Yes, there may be rules that make carrying some form of self protection challenging but it is simply a problem to overcome and find a solution to.
    * "NO Reserves, NO Retreats, NO Regrets"
    -William Borden

    *Faith, Firearms, and Fitness

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    So. CA
    Posts
    26
    As a science teacher of 16 years in one of our nation's largest school districts this really hits home. I have a thread here somewhere on just this issue. I have been at our admin for over a year to get active shooter and trauma training. Slow as hell. One of the admins finally approached me this week to look into this. So I am playing the middle man between the admins at my school and a group to come train the faculty to deal with an active shooter situation.

    We do a shelter in place drill with our students a couple times a year and that seems good enough for most. I can tell you I am the only one who stands up at every meeting after these drills and point out that we are absolutely not ready for an active shooter. When I ask them what they will do when a lock fails or a bad guy gets into a room its dead silence. I told them that they can do what they want but the students in my room know we will act with violence if that bad guy gets in.

    I was told that they did a mock active shooter drill in my district a while back where people knew it was staged and many people were still so traumatized that they felt it would be best to avoid any such scenarios in the future. So our plan is shelter in place, be quiet, and pray the door doesn't open. Not my plan but this is a huge "head in the sand" problem.

    But still I will keep fighting to get our school trained for the fight. Frustrating as hell.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    69
    We have a new Sheriff who has really started pushing being prepared. He started with LE and then brought in EMS/Fire departments. This last fall he added the local hospital and somehow managed to get the schools to be included in the training (was an absolute NO when approached before).

    For myself, I'm not front line capable physically. Reality, whether I like it or not. That said, I can't run, so my self appointed role is to cover the exit of my Family if they are with me. If I'm alone I'm doing everything in my power to stay alive to go home to my Family.

    My opinion is that the sooner the threat is eliminated, the sooner I can go home. In that endeavor stealth is my friend. Taking an active shooter from ambush becomes a VERY good tactic. No matter what, I'm not going out without a fight.

    Gabe, thanks for passing on your experience. If not for your influence on a couple of my mentors, I would not be where I am today.

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