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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    AGL (Above Ground Level)
    Posts
    279
    Already discussed in other threads...
    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...agazine-Tac-14
    Check 6,
    Air Pirate out.
    tw/ig: @SoCalAirPirate

    "Real freedom lies in wildness, not in civilization."
    -Charles Lindbergh

    "The skies are lovely, dark, and deep,
    but I have promises to keep,
    and miles to fly before I sleep..."

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    186
    Just wanted to say that I have enjoyed this thread tremendously so far. I have recently added a couple of shotguns to my inventory and in the last several pages I have gotten loads of great information. Thanks, Gents.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    PHX
    Posts
    3
    Very interesting stuff. I really like the fact that you call out shotguns and rifles as different beasts altogether, where other people want to call out shotguns as just an obsolete progenitor of rifles.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    One thing I will add, for you to consider...and to ponder given the events of the day (notably Sweden). When we were running our Surveillance work...the Stakeout work, we were very concerned about penetrating vehicles. The bodywork and the glass. Side glass is a non-issue...but front glass is another matter. Other than a 308...which we were not going to get, nor likely be able to deploy from a car if we had them...the only thing that reliably penetrated was a shotgun with Foster Slugs.

    Pistol had little effect...and 223 had little effect.

    Just Sayin.
    Keep in mind, many newer vehicles are now using laminated side glass in an effort to reduce NVH. Its something that needs to be evaluated for some venues.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Beyond The Wall
    Posts
    45,222
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO View Post
    Keep in mind, many newer vehicles are now using laminated side glass in an effort to reduce NVH. Its something that needs to be evaluated for some venues.
    I am not going to buy a car with new glass and shoot it so you guys can buy ammo that I do not sell. But I bet those slugs do a better job on the new "magic glass" than alternatives.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    8,003
    Just shoot through the door.... You shoot anything enough and it will eventually make it inside...

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Third Coast
    Posts
    4,306
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO View Post
    Keep in mind, many newer vehicles are now using laminated side glass in an effort to reduce NVH. Its something that needs to be evaluated for some venues.
    side glass does not sit at the same angles that windshield glass does, making it far easier to punch through. If I can send 00 buck through a car door, side glass isnt going to be a barrier.
    NEVER CONFUSE GETTING LUCKY WITH GOOD TACTICS (unless you are at the bar)

    I'm not in the business of Losing

    A stab to the taint beats most of the mystical bullshit, most of the time

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    I am not going to buy a car with new glass and shoot it so you guys can buy ammo that I do not sell. But I bet those slugs do a better job on the new "magic glass" than alternatives.
    It's the same thing as a windshield, so I'd figure so. Nothing new about it, just applied on 4 sides of the car instead of 1. Newer Dodge Chargers have it, and many other Chrysler products, as well as a lot of the "luxury" brands. Just something to be aware of.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by coastalcop View Post
    side glass does not sit at the same angles that windshield glass does, making it far easier to punch through. If I can send 00 buck through a car door, side glass isnt going to be a barrier.
    My testing on car doors indicates that to make it through the outer skin, you need 00 at at least 1290fps, and to be no further than about 30 yards. Smaller buck did not penetrate in my testing, and 000 penetrated out to 60+ yards. This was done on a late 80's/early 90's police car.

    Re:slugs, I have not put much slug through a car door, but some items, suffice to say, WILL stop one. I have attempted to put .44mag 270gr GDSP from a 7.5" revolver through the same police car, and the window crank mechanism stopped it cold, from 15 yards. I have seen a LR Federal Truball fired at at 3-series mid 90's BMW. The slug was fired at 10 yards, from a perpendicular angle to the door. It impacted about where the driver's lap would be, and exited the car through the very bottom sill of the back-seat passenger door. We never did figure out *exactly* how that came to be. When it comes to vehicles, no doubt slugs are better than most other commonly available options, but Kyle Lamb's mantra of "P for Plenty" is something that was driven home by my experiences shooting into and out of them.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Posts
    9,721
    A vehicle is semi permeable cover, there are places that are always cover but most place are only possible cover. Neither the window glass nor the skin of any late model vehicle will put up much of a fight against a shotgun. Even if the first round doesn't make it through subsequent rounds will as the structural integrity has been compromised.
    Greg "Hyena" Nichols
    Instagram: tacfit_az
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    #thinkinginviolence
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    Always entertaining, mildly offensive
    IANative: Indeed, when you grab Brent (or he grabs you), it feels like liquid unobtanium wrapped in rawhide... whereas Greg is just solid muscle wrapped in hate, seasoned w/ snuff and a little lead.

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...he-Obscenities

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