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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    44,996

    Default STAKEOUT CREEDMORE

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    STAKEOUT CREEDMORE



    Suarez training is beyond the pale. We have never accepted the standards of mediocrity established by the industry because we a better than that...and better than those who establish them. And we want the best for our students as well. We teach gunfighting...the art of killing your adversaries with whatever tool you happen to be training with. And while the basics of a weapon platform may not change much from one school to another, our "ryu", or school, goes far beyond these.

    One of these has been the Stakeout Creedmore. This was developed by one of our friends and students known as "Chris Nobody". It is a modification of the old Creedmore Shooting position now applied for the Tac-14/Stakeout Shotgun series of weapons. Demonstrated here by student Don Marbach, it allows its users to hit with great accuracy at 100 yards and beyond.

    We used full power slugs to test this and it works well once you learn it. Essential is a sighting system that allows definitive alignment on target. Suggested sights for the Stakeout/Amphibian series are the standard Remington Rifle/Slug sights at minimum, and top selection would include an RMR.

    Want to make your Tac-14 a superlative and versatile weapon beyond what the masses think it can be used for? Give us a call.



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    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    145
    When I saw "Chris Nobody" shoot in his modified Creedmore position at last year's SI Shotgun Gunfighting class I was very curious. At this year's Shotgun Gunfighting class I had my own Tac-14/Amphibian with the RMR and was keen to try it once we got to the 100 yard line.

    We first shot standing at 100 yards and it was doable with the Tac-14/Stakeout, but marksmanship skills were needed, and Tommy/Air Pirate was ringing the bell without exception. Then Gabe explained the different supported shooting positions. You can use the same rifle supported shooting positions with a stocked shotgun and they work very well. With the Tac-14/Stakeout many of those positions are near impossible without a third point of contact. I was able to shoot from a seated position, but could not use any type of conventional prone. I employed the the Creedmore position and noticed how incredible stable it was. The sling is on my shin which places the muzzle in front of the shin. The key for me was the use of the 2 point sling and pulling back on the Bird's head grip while simultaneously pulling back the sling on the opposite side of my leg using my shin as a fulcrum. You can see in the picture the tension I am putting on my support hand. I was incredulous at how stable the RMR dot was. I shot a few times and it was incredible easy to hit the steel silhouette and the rmr was rock steady. The downside with a pump action is to have to remove the tension from the sling then cycle the action and return to the shooting position, but it was not difficult at all. I would think the semi-automatic Tac-13 would be the easier button for this application. I am convinced using this method shooting the Tac-14/Stakeout and Tac-13 further than 100 yards is eminently possible and very much beyond the pale.
    Last edited by CaptShack; 10-19-2019 at 11:04 AM. Reason: more information
    Don M.
    Scottsdale, AZ

    "Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge"

    Austin 'Dusty' Miller, the quote on the Eagle & Fledgling statue at the U.S. Air Force Academy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Beyond The Wall
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    44,996
    I believe Ted "Greek" Demosthenes was hitting out beyond that with his 20 ga Pointman.
    Gabriel Suarez

    Turning Lambs into Lions Since 1995

    Suarez International USA Headquarters

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,122
    So zero for the slugs at 100 yards
    confirm POI for buck at their ranges?
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,602
    No. Zero at 10 yards with slug. Confirm with buck. The slug will still be on a torso at 100.

    I aim around the shoulder line.

    that’s what works for me. Arguably you could zero at 25, I don’t think it would make much difference. We zero our weapons at what makes most sense for their most likely use. With a shotgun that is relatively close and mostly I am going to be using
    Last edited by Brent Yamamoto; 10-19-2019 at 12:09 PM.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    5,602
    I believe that Greg and Ted made hits at 170 with Ted’s 20 gauge.

    And that was standing, unsupported.

    I think you could push a Stakeout way past 100 yards from Creedmore.
    Last edited by Brent Yamamoto; 10-19-2019 at 12:14 PM.
    Brent Yamamoto
    Suarez International Tier 1 Staff Instructor

    Ready, willing, able. Bring it.

    Instagram: karate_at_1200fps

    Upcoming classes:

    Pistol Groundfighting, Kansas
    Pistol Groundfighting, Washington

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,066
    It took me a moment to figure out how it was being done. It is being very innovative and beyond what is known as the creedmoor position that I am familiar with. You are using the sling around the shin. Mitigates recoil and gives a steady position. I wonder if this can be applied to other compact firearms.

    Traditional Creedmoor or back position for rifle and pistol



    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Nearly Free State of Arizona
    Posts
    328
    Best I have done with any consistency is 145 yards (5 for 5). The limiting factor appeared to be ammunition. The federal blue hull slug, while a “reduced recoil” load, seemed to be more consistent than the green hull standard Remington load. With Iron sights I was aiming about 3 feet above the shoulders and made chest hits.

    It has gotten easier since SI turned my Tac-14 into an Amphibian (Thank You JonathanNobody!). The SI sling location made it easier and the sling is easy to adjust. The grip texturing makes it stick a bit better on the leg and hand. The RMR Mount makes it too easy. Well worth it.
    “How can I shoot people? Shooting people is easy. It is the simple application of the fundamentals of marksmanship. The hard part is ensuring that I have the physical strength to prevail, the moral strength to know when it is right to kill, and the mental strength to articulate the aftermath such that I maintain my freedom while they experience what comes next in the afterlife.”

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NWFL
    Posts
    15,066
    Does the empty shell holder on left side of the receiver pressing against the upper thigh help?

    creedmoor.jpg
    One who hammers his gun into a plow plows for those who do not....Unknown
    ...at the end of the day its not about anything else but YOU AND YOURS..... Gabe Suarez
    ....WANT not NEED is what America is all about. ..... Gabe Suarez
    Its not about how fast you can load, but about how well you can shoot ..... Someone being saved by a speed load is not something that has happened with any regularity. Gabe Suarez

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,122
    Thanks Brent.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    No. Zero at 10 yards with slug. Confirm with buck. The slug will still be on a torso at 100.

    I aim around the shoulder line.

    that’s what works for me. Arguably you could zero at 25, I don’t think it would make much difference. We zero our weapons at what makes most sense for their most likely use. With a shotgun that is relatively close and mostly I am going to be using
    "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" Alan Temby
    "Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth"- Oscar Wilde.

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