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  1. #21
    I wonder if the 300 Blackout solves the 5.56 issue at 500??

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I wonder if the 300 Blackout solves the 5.56 issue at 500??
    Seems like that'd be pushing it.
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  3. #23
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    500 yards on the range is easy. 500 yards on a moving target that uses cover well, not easy. 500 yards on a target that uses cover well and shoots back at you accurately, pretty hard. You'd have to play that very smart.
    I was born for a storm, and a calm does not suit me. - Andrew Jackson

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I wonder if the 300 Blackout solves the 5.56 issue at 500??
    Pushing it I think. Maybe Yondering's 358 Harret project...not that something like that would ever be approved for an agency.

    6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel makes sense to me in this role.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I wonder if the 300 Blackout solves the 5.56 issue at 500??

    What issue is that? I think for a CQB round that needs to be suppressed...or a heavy round for penetration up close, the 300 is great. But I don't think it will hit a man in the chest at 500 yards any better.
    Gabriel Suarez

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  6. #26
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    Something else is that sniping a bad guy at 500 yards when he is bent over taking a crap and oblivious to your existance is different than any shot on someone that is not presenting as a target. The bad guy in the story would have been a problem at 100 yards.
    Gabriel Suarez

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogDoc View Post
    I live in an area where this scenario seems very possible. ..lots of wide open spaces and lots of very capable bolt gun users...and a sheriff that's half an hour away at best.

    I know LE is limited to issued gear, but am I wrong to think an AR10 would be a much better tool to deal with a guy with a 30-06 500 yards away behind a car?

    I have a nice AR10 but have been debating selling it and sticking with my AR15s. After reading the OP, I'm not so sure that's a good idea. Gabe's old GPR posts from not long ago come to mind. That concept (the .308 semi-auto as a general purpose rifle) was being explored before Gabe and the crew had really wrung out the amazing potential of a scoped AR15 with a White Oak Barrel but I wonder what our thinking is now.

    Have we moth balled the GPR concept? Is the AR15 DMR really a suitable replacement? Bear in mind that the OP terrain is my AO.

    Would be interested in the opinions of those of you that have real world perspective.
    Not that I have much of the real world perspective you're after but....

    I'm in the same boat as you with the GPR setup. I have an M&P10 with a 1-4x on it that I've toyed with getting rid of, but the damn thing is just too useful. I have AR-15 stuff, but I just don't find them as useful of a rifle. I do have a lower waiting on a tax stamp to replace my 870 as a HD long gun, but if I'm going outside I'll probably grab my .308.

    AR15 in 300blk does NOT = GPR, whether that be AR10/G3/M1A ect.

    AR15 in 300blk DOES = 7.62x39 AK...and I know the 300 AR has more accuracy potential, but bullet drop is going to make it hard to use past 300y under FIELD CONDITONS.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanNobody View Post
    I wonder if the 300 Blackout solves the 5.56 issue at 500??
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Suarez View Post
    What issue is that? I think for a CQB round that needs to be suppressed...or a heavy round for penetration up close, the 300 is great. But I don't think it will hit a man in the chest at 500 yards any better.
    This is exactly what I was thinking. .300 BLK makes a great CQB round, and in a 110 gr offering, could be a good option for distance shots. However, I think 5.56 would be a much better option in this scenario - faster, flatter shooting round. Plus, you don't have to worry about carrying two different calibers that use the same equipment and risk mixing that gear up. You also only need to train on one round then as well. Worst case, you have a patrol upper and DMR upper and swap them if needed, depending on the situation. Best case scenario, you have a dedicated DMR platform and just grab that. Your mags and gear would already be setup because you're using the same ammo for both. KISS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
    6.8 spc or 6.5 grendel makes sense to me in this role.
    The 6.5 Grendel is a great 1000 yard round. It's surprising just how accurate and effective that round is. Especially considering it uses a standard AR lower. However, because it isn't an "accepted LE round", the chances of it getting adopted are pretty slim (your agency may be different in this regard). So, that pretty much leaves .308 as the only alternative to 5.56. But the cost differential in 5.56 vs .308 platforms can be pretty substantial (for example,Knights SR25 starts around $4k and is roughly $10k for the suite the military uses/used).

    All the way around, that sounds like a pretty crappy scenario. Thankfully he ended the situation before anyone was seriously injured or killed. While it's very flat out here, we have a lot of very wide open areas and taking 500+ yard shots is a very real possibility. In its current configuration, I can take my patrol rifle out to 600 yards or so, but am thinking I could use a bit more practice at the farther distances with it. You also have me considering putting my scoped recce in my trunk.
    "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people." - Tecumseh

  9. #29
    Not LEO, but just asking. How difficult would it be to have your own .308 bolt action in the trunk/back of the patrol vehicle? Especially if you are rural? Not to replace the AR, but as a supplement? Seems to me it would be cheaper to get a good Savage .308 and glass accurized than a .308 semi-auto.

  10. #30
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    I heard of a old deputy who use to carry a M1 Garand in the trunk for cases like this, of course he might have had problems getting to it with the guy shooting.
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